4 ms·

It runs much deeper than that for me. Windows at its core just does not seem like a serious operating system to me. Whenever there are two ways to do something

by lxgr 1y ago

It runs much deeper than that for me. Windows at its core just does not seem like a serious operating system to me. Whenever there are two ways to do something, its developers seem to have picked the non-reasonable one compared to Unix – and doing that for decades adds up. But yes, first impressions undoubtedly matter too.

iLemming 1y ago
I have used Windows for years, and I loved it. I never understood why Linux and Mac users kept bashing on it. I just didn't know any better. These days I'm avoiding booting into Windows unless I really have no choice. The ridiculousness of it is simply limitless. I would open a folder with a bunch of files in it and the Explorer shows me a progress bar for nearly a minute. Why? What the heck is it doing? I just want to see the list of files, I'm not even doing anything crazy. Why the heck not a single other file navigator does that — not in Linux, not on Mac, darn — even the specialized apps built for Windows work fine, but the built-in thing just doesn't. What gives? I would close the window and re-open the exact same folder, not even three minutes later and it shows the progress bar again. "WTF? Can't you fucker just cache it? Da fuk you doing?" Or I would install an app. And seconds after installing it I would try to search for it in the Start menu, and guess what? Windows instead opens Edge and searches the web for it. wat? Why the heck I can't remove that Edge BS once and for all? Nope, not really possible. wat? Or like why can't I ever rebind Cmd+L? I can disable it but can't rebind it, there's just no way. Is it trying to operate my computer, or 'S' in 'OS' stands for "soul"? Or for whatever reason it can't even get the time right. Every single time I boot into it, my clock time is wrong. I have to manually re-sync it. It just doesn't do it, even with the location enabled. Stupid ass bitch. And don't even let me rant about those pesky updates. I dunno, I just cannot not hate Windows anymore. Even when I need to boot in it "for just a few minutes", it always ends up taking more time for some absolute fiddlesticks made of bullcrap. Screw Windows! Especially the 11 one.
- skydhash 1y ago
  I loved windows XP and Windows 7. They were a bit brittle regarding malware, but I was using a lot of pirated software at the times, so that may have been me. Win 8 was bad UX wise, but 8.1 resolved a lot of the issues. But since then, I barely touched windows. I want a OS, not an entertainment center, meaning I want to launch a program, organize my files, and connect to other computers. Anything that hinders those is bad. I moved from macOS for the same reason, as they are trying to make those difficult too.
  - iLemming 1y ago
    > I want a OS, not an entertainment center Exactomundo! I'm a software developer, not a florist. I don't care about all those animations, transitions, dancing emojis, styled sliding notifications, windings and dingleberries. If I want to rebind a fucking key I should be able to. If I want to replace the entire desktop with a tiling manager of my choosing — that should be possible. And definitely, absolutely, in no way, should just about any kind of app, especially a web-browser, be shoved in my face. "Edge is not that bad", they would say. And would be completely missing the whole point.
- dsego 1y ago
  > Or for whatever reason it can't even get the time right. Every single time I boot into it, my clock time is wrong. Dual booting will do that because linux & windows treat the system clock differently. From what I recall one of them will set it directly to the local time and the other always sets it to UTC and then applies the offset.
  - iLemming 1y ago
    Yeah, well, I use ntfs in Linux. It somehow knows how to treat the partitions. Even though it can't fix the issues when they arise (which almost never happens) — there's no chkdsk for Linux. So, I just don't understand why Windows can't automatically sync the clock (as it explicitly set to do it) when it boots? Why does one have to get creative to fix the darn clock? If I can't even trust the OS to manage the time correctly, what can I trust it with, if anything at all?
    - p_ing 1y ago
      Windows syncs the clock to time.windows.com OOTB. This can be changed to any time provider. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/windows-time-service/how-the-windows-time-service-works https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - cjm42 1y ago
    The most reliable fix is to get Windows to use UTC for the hardware clock, which is usually the default on Linux. (It's more reliable because it means the hardware clock doesn't need to be adjusted when DST begins or ends, so there's no need for the OSs to cooperate on that.) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_time#UTC_in_Microsoft_Windows https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_time#UTC_in_Microsof...
    - lxgr 1y ago
      That flag has been broken for at least several Windows versions, unfortunately. A shame, given that that's the only sane way of using the RTC in the presence of DST or time zone shifts... That's exactly the type of Windows-ism I'm talking about. Two options (use UTC or the local time), and Windows chose to pick the nonsensical one.
- bongodongobob 1y ago
  Are you one of those guys that fiddles with registry settings and decrapifiers? To me, it sounds like you turned off file indexing. I turn it off when doing audio recording and yeah, that slows down file browsing.
  - iLemming 1y ago
    > fiddles with registry settings nope, that's with a pristine, freshly installed Windows Pro instance.
nyarlathotep_ 1y ago
I have no idea what Windows does with the various network services but my Pi-Hole gets rate-limited* when it connects to the network--there's just constant DNS lookups to countless MS domains, far beyond what could reasonably be expected for a barebones install. This isn't even a corpo-sloptop with Qualys and Zscaler and crap running, Just a basic WIndows box I rarely boot. It's deeply offensive to me.
int_19h 1y ago
When you compare thing on API level, NT is generally superior to POSIX - just look at what a mess fork() is for one example, or fd reuse, or async I/O.
- guappa 1y ago
  Want to talk about how each process has to implement their own custom escaping and splitting of the command line string? That's much more complicated and error prone than fork.
  - int_19h 1y ago
    The C runtime will do that for you, and it has been a standard OS component since Win10. But also, no, it's not worse than fork. Fork literally breaks every threaded app.
    - guappa 1y ago
      > standard OS component since Win10. So, basically yesterday, and not default like how it is with execve, and you can never know if the command you're trying to call implements it the same way or does a different escaping. Care to explain how fork "breaks" threaded apps? You can't mix them for doing multiprocessing, but it's fine if you use one model or the other.
      - int_19h 1y ago
        Win10 has been around for literally a decade now. So much so that it's going out of support. fork() breaks threaded apps by forking the state of all threads, including any locks (such as e.g. the global heap lock!) that any given thread might hold at that moment. In practice this means that you have to choose either fork or threads for your process. And this extends to libraries - if the library that you need happens to spawn a background thread for any reason, no more fork for you. On macOS this means that many system APIs are unusable. Nor is any of this hypothetical - it's a footgun that people run into regularly (just google for "fork deadlock") even in higher level languages such as Python.

by lxgr 1y ago

iLemming 1y ago

I have used Windows for years, and I loved it. I never understood why Linux and Mac users kept bashing on it. I just didn't know any better. These days I'm avoiding booting into Windows unless I really have no choice. The ridiculousness of it is simply limitless. I would open a folder with a bunch of files in it and the Explorer shows me a progress bar for nearly a minute. Why? What the heck is it doing? I just want to see the list of files, I'm not even doing anything crazy. Why the heck not a single other file navigator does that — not in Linux, not on Mac, darn — even the specialized apps built for Windows work fine, but the built-in thing just doesn't. What gives? I would close the window and re-open the exact same folder, not even three minutes later and it shows the progress bar again. "WTF? Can't you fucker just cache it? Da fuk you doing?" Or I would install an app. And seconds after installing it I would try to search for it in the Start menu, and guess what? Windows instead opens Edge and searches the web for it. wat? Why the heck I can't remove that Edge BS once and for all? Nope, not really possible. wat? Or like why can't I ever rebind Cmd+L? I can disable it but can't rebind it, there's just no way. Is it trying to operate my computer, or 'S' in 'OS' stands for "soul"? Or for whatever reason it can't even get the time right. Every single time I boot into it, my clock time is wrong. I have to manually re-sync it. It just doesn't do it, even with the location enabled. Stupid ass bitch. And don't even let me rant about those pesky updates. I dunno, I just cannot not hate Windows anymore. Even when I need to boot in it "for just a few minutes", it always ends up taking more time for some absolute fiddlesticks made of bullcrap. Screw Windows! Especially the 11 one.

skydhash 1y ago
I loved windows XP and Windows 7. They were a bit brittle regarding malware, but I was using a lot of pirated software at the times, so that may have been me. Win 8 was bad UX wise, but 8.1 resolved a lot of the issues. But since then, I barely touched windows. I want a OS, not an entertainment center, meaning I want to launch a program, organize my files, and connect to other computers. Anything that hinders those is bad. I moved from macOS for the same reason, as they are trying to make those difficult too.
- iLemming 1y ago
  > I want a OS, not an entertainment center Exactomundo! I'm a software developer, not a florist. I don't care about all those animations, transitions, dancing emojis, styled sliding notifications, windings and dingleberries. If I want to rebind a fucking key I should be able to. If I want to replace the entire desktop with a tiling manager of my choosing — that should be possible. And definitely, absolutely, in no way, should just about any kind of app, especially a web-browser, be shoved in my face. "Edge is not that bad", they would say. And would be completely missing the whole point.
dsego 1y ago
> Or for whatever reason it can't even get the time right. Every single time I boot into it, my clock time is wrong. Dual booting will do that because linux & windows treat the system clock differently. From what I recall one of them will set it directly to the local time and the other always sets it to UTC and then applies the offset.
- iLemming 1y ago
  Yeah, well, I use ntfs in Linux. It somehow knows how to treat the partitions. Even though it can't fix the issues when they arise (which almost never happens) — there's no chkdsk for Linux. So, I just don't understand why Windows can't automatically sync the clock (as it explicitly set to do it) when it boots? Why does one have to get creative to fix the darn clock? If I can't even trust the OS to manage the time correctly, what can I trust it with, if anything at all?
  - p_ing 1y ago
    Windows syncs the clock to time.windows.com OOTB. This can be changed to any time provider. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/windows-time-service/how-the-windows-time-service-works https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-server/networking/...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- cjm42 1y ago
  The most reliable fix is to get Windows to use UTC for the hardware clock, which is usually the default on Linux. (It's more reliable because it means the hardware clock doesn't need to be adjusted when DST begins or ends, so there's no need for the OSs to cooperate on that.) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_time#UTC_in_Microsoft_Windows https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/System_time#UTC_in_Microsof...
  - lxgr 1y ago
    That flag has been broken for at least several Windows versions, unfortunately. A shame, given that that's the only sane way of using the RTC in the presence of DST or time zone shifts... That's exactly the type of Windows-ism I'm talking about. Two options (use UTC or the local time), and Windows chose to pick the nonsensical one.
bongodongobob 1y ago
Are you one of those guys that fiddles with registry settings and decrapifiers? To me, it sounds like you turned off file indexing. I turn it off when doing audio recording and yeah, that slows down file browsing.
- iLemming 1y ago
  > fiddles with registry settings nope, that's with a pristine, freshly installed Windows Pro instance.

nyarlathotep_ 1y ago

I have no idea what Windows does with the various network services but my Pi-Hole gets rate-limited* when it connects to the network--there's just constant DNS lookups to countless MS domains, far beyond what could reasonably be expected for a barebones install. This isn't even a corpo-sloptop with Qualys and Zscaler and crap running, Just a basic WIndows box I rarely boot. It's deeply offensive to me.

int_19h 1y ago

When you compare thing on API level, NT is generally superior to POSIX - just look at what a mess fork() is for one example, or fd reuse, or async I/O.

guappa 1y ago
Want to talk about how each process has to implement their own custom escaping and splitting of the command line string? That's much more complicated and error prone than fork.
- int_19h 1y ago
  The C runtime will do that for you, and it has been a standard OS component since Win10. But also, no, it's not worse than fork. Fork literally breaks every threaded app.
  - guappa 1y ago
    > standard OS component since Win10. So, basically yesterday, and not default like how it is with execve, and you can never know if the command you're trying to call implements it the same way or does a different escaping. Care to explain how fork "breaks" threaded apps? You can't mix them for doing multiprocessing, but it's fine if you use one model or the other.
    - int_19h 1y ago
      Win10 has been around for literally a decade now. So much so that it's going out of support. fork() breaks threaded apps by forking the state of all threads, including any locks (such as e.g. the global heap lock!) that any given thread might hold at that moment. In practice this means that you have to choose either fork or threads for your process. And this extends to libraries - if the library that you need happens to spawn a background thread for any reason, no more fork for you. On macOS this means that many system APIs are unusable. Nor is any of this hypothetical - it's a footgun that people run into regularly (just google for "fork deadlock") even in higher level languages such as Python.