4 ms·

The forbidden railway: Vienna-Pyongyang (2008)

227 points by 1317 1y ago

Klonoar 1y ago
I think I probably refer a stupid number of people to this post each year when the topic of trains and/or North Korea comes up. Read it when it came out and always found it fascinating.
cenamus 1y ago
Fascinating article, didn't know the border is/was that open via Russia
- decimalenough 1y ago
  It normally isn't (unless you're Russian or North Korean), which is a large reason why this story is so fascinating.
  - grishka 1y ago
    I researched it a while ago as a Russian. You can't just visit North Korea by booking a ticket and going there. You have to buy a tour, and even then, while you're there, you can't move freely, can't interact with the locals, and can't have North Korean money, you can only buy things from special tourist shops for foreign currency. You're only allowed to see places and things approved by the government to be seen by foreign tourists.
    - decimalenough 1y ago
      Yes, but non-Russian tourists don't have the option to use the Tumangan crossing even on organized tours.
      - grishka 1y ago
        TIL. Though the more common route seems to be flying to Pyongyang from Vladivostok.
      - orbital-decay 1y ago
        Neither do Russian tourists. Before their trip, NK officials simply never expected any foreigners coming through it with right papers. But after this incident the loophole was closed. (I also researched this when this travel report appeared).
- cyberax 1y ago
  This is from 2008. Back then, North Korea was still living under the previous Kim. Back then, the border was very leaky and Koreans could move to China and Russia without a lot of barriers.
ch4s3 1y ago
The follow on posts and photos are amazing. The photos of crowds of North Koreans are really interesting, as were the earlier station photos. The material culture of the place is kind of fascinating. It's also kind of mind boggling to contemplate the lives Arirang performers[1]. What must that be like? [1] https://imageshack.com/i/exNHDHTVj https://imageshack.com/i/exNHDHTVj
- Loughla 1y ago
  There are just no people anywhere. Do they clear everyone out when westerners come through?
  - bobmcnamara 1y ago
    They are pixels
- aziaziazi 1y ago
  [image of the show with a giant screen beside] https://imageshack.com/i/exQrNAZnj https://imageshack.com/i/exQrNAZnj I was like "wow that is a big screen although not very bright". > Each background picture is created by about 40.000 childrens holding tables containing pages with different pictures/colours [zoom of the "screen" with endless pixels: a color square a little head on top of each - impressionist style] https://imageshack.com/i/exw2BFluj https://imageshack.com/i/exw2BFluj
  - ch4s3 1y ago
    Yeah it’s pretty incredible, and sort of horrifying.
oatsandsugar 1y ago
did he end up going?
- willidiots 1y ago
  Yes! There are a whole series of posts with photos and maps. Click the red "Tumangan, we are coming!!!" link at the bottom of the first post to jump to the next one, etc.
  - echelon_musk 1y ago
    Thanks. I didn't realise the red text was a hyperlink either. To save anyone else the hassle, this is where he finally crosses into NK: https://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north-korean-border-station.html https://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north...
    - izacus 1y ago
      What hassle are you talking about? Reading about the trip?
    - anotheracc3 1y ago
      Keep going and going and going. There are a lot of trains (of course) but once you get past that there are a lot of very interesting photos, especially the shows that look extravagent and unique. This guy documents his trips well! Hope it is backed up well (guess on the archive sites).
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  Yeah only after clicking the home button did I realize that '<' is next. It suddenly got a lot less ominous.
  - netsharc 1y ago
    Ah, the blogosphere "Reverse chronological" order: Hit "< Prev" to read the chronologically next post...
te_chris 1y ago
This is one of the best bits of the internet and should be at the top.
geye1234 1y ago
If you wanted to explain to someone what the 00s-blogging phenomenon was all about, and to given them an example of the best of it, you may well point to this. Photos of NK like these are incredibly difficult to come by. What a beautiful country. Also, I admire his courage. In several photos, military people are staring at him, as they may well be. He was lucky as well. He states he hid the photos in a zip file in his C:\windows folder when leaving the country, having deleted them from his SD Card.
ValentineC 1y ago
I think I spent maybe 2 hours appreciating the author's journey. This has been one of my best reads of the month, and I hope that I'll one day get to visit Pyongyang myself, without the US visa waiver issues that come with it.
- openplatypus 1y ago
  Same here. Proves that good content, not fancy CSS or animations, is still the king.
sira04 1y ago
Is there anyone who has archived this into a PDF or ebook format? I'd love to save and read it in another way.
ubermonkey 1y ago
Pretty sure I read this when it was new. Wild.
saubeidl 1y ago
Reading this made me nostalgic for the old internet and sad about what it's become since. I miss the days of blogs and forums and authentic content like this. Today it's all hyperpolished platforms filled with clickbaity influencers. Every step of the way, somebody's trying to extract as much money as they can. I can't help but think that we in this community played a big part in turning it into what it is now and that thought fills me with regret.
- steamrolled 1y ago
  The old internet is still there, it just hasn't scaled as quickly as everything else. And frankly, we have a role to play if we want to preserve and nourish it. You say you liked the site. Drop the author a thank you note. Amplify it beyond pressing the "up" arrow on HN. It's not just about the author: show others that this kind of stuff is valued. Today, the signals young content creators get is that they can make dumb videos on YouTube or TikTok and get 10M subscribers and ad revenue, or set up a geeky blog that will get 100 views a month. But it's not Google or TikTok that did this: it's the content consumers.
  - jazzyb 1y ago
    > But it's not Google or TikTok that did this: it's the content consumers. Given the intentionally addictive algorithms and psychological manipulation used by the big tech companies, I think at least some of the blame can be placed on them.
- greenavocado 1y ago
  I am reposting one of my favorite Quora adventure stories for the sake of posterity: What is the strangest thing you've seen at the airport? By Aurelio Germes: The strangest thing I've seen was to find nobody not even police or security at the airport, so I took a plane and left the country without anyone noticing it. It was at the international airport in Malabo, island of Bioko in Equatorial Guinea. It happened that I had missed my flight from Malabo to Madrid departing on Sunday and I didn't want to wait a whole week for the next weekly flight, so I decided to call a pilot in Cameroon and charter his plane to come and pick me up in Malabo and take me to the Douala airport in Cameroon where I could more easily catch a plane to Paris. We arranged date and hour of his arrival to Malabo. On the date agreed I went to the international airport only to find out that it was closed since that day no flights, neither international nor domestic, were scheduled. There was nobody there not even a guard or a clerk, but it was already too late to cancel the trip. The only way out was to jump the wall surrounding the airport and wait on the runway until an aircraft arrived, and that's what I did. I didn't have to wait long. A small plane with a French pilot arrived and soon we were ready to fly to Douala with me in the copilot seat. We could not take off in our first attempt since a door of the aircraft opened unexpectedly when we were about to take off, but we succeeded in our second attempt. Due to lack of security, nobody noticed that a plane had arrived at the international airport and left with a passenger.
bananaboy 1y ago
This reminds me a bit of Paul Theroux’s “The Old Patagonian Express” where he tries to make a trip from the northern US all the way to the southern tip of South America. It’s a great read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Patagonian_Express https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Patagonian_Express
- throwaway2037 1y ago
  Similar, but Japan: The Roads to Sata by Alan Booth
  - waste_monk 1y ago
    I hope they do the roads to NVMe next.
starik36 1y ago
A throwback to more hopeful times. The new internet really did a number on us.
gus_massa 1y ago
Old discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11139896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11139896 (155 points | Feb 2016 | 30 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2155794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2155794 (124 points | Jan 2011 | 19 comments)
peterburkimsher 1y ago
Want to see photos of the labour camp in Chegdomyn? Went there in 2010, then on a tour to Pyongyang in 2011.
- homeless_engi 1y ago
  Yes, if you have photos please do share!
  - peterburkimsher 1y ago
    Photos of where? The labour camp or somewhere else? @Homeless_engi
    - tomaytotomato 1y ago
      Answering on behalf of @Homeless_engi :- Photos of both places please
      - peterburkimsher 1y ago
        Uploaded where?
mNovak 1y ago
This was a really great read (read the whole travelogue), and I'm really glad these photos are still being hosted. I always wonder how long the shelf life of this sort freely published content will be. Even within the blog, he includes links to blogs or photos of others he encountered, and most of them seemed dead.
- ValdikSS 1y ago
  I was pleasantly surprised that imageshack still hosts all the pictures, as all mine from it were gone. UPD: the Eurasia 2005 posts have images from imageshack _us_, all are unavailable.
suzzer99 1y ago
What a crazy place to see the Pacific Ocean for the first time in your life. The point where the Russian, Chinese, and N. Korean borders meet has to be one of the weirdest, most fascinating, most forbidden (for most of us, and especially Americans) places on earth. Maybe someday tourists will be able to stand on it like the 4 Corners in the US. Well I guess technically it's in the river. But they could rig something up.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  North Korea has some beautiful coastlines and mountains, seems like they could make a lot of money on tourism if they would open up and make sure visitors feel safe.
  - edm0nd 1y ago
    I don't think its possible for the Norks to "make sure visitors feel safe", its just not how they operate. If they can capture a tourist to turn into a political pawn, they will. Same goes for RU and China and even America. It's a global game and they all are willing to play it.
- rtpg 1y ago
  https://maps.app.goo.gl/DURwu3dHtt9aUWBm8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/DURwu3dHtt9aUWBm8 At the very least you can go to this mountain on the Chinese - NK border ("you"... I, as an American, went along with a mainland Chinese person). People do live in these places and there are (well, were...) cross-border interactions. I just stood kinda close to the border and was like "I guess I could just jump over?" There were cameras but that's it. There's not some magical thing when you look across the border and "feel the oppression", in some of the border towns on the Chinese side there were ads for tours where you could go to NK and do some shopping for cigarettes or something. I do not believe I would be able to sign up for those though. I was just visiting but it's how I imagine some parts of the US/Mexico border are like? It's not like that area of China is super vibrant either, pretty industrial. I have the impression that when Russia gets involved border stuff gets messy, if all those videos of people driving across Georgia and the like are to be believed.
edm0nd 1y ago
some more links from the same author The start of our trip with the North Korean train (still inside Russia): http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/irkutsk-skovorodino.html http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/irkutsk-skovoro... Approaching the border between Russia and North Korea (the last kilometers inside Russia): http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/khabarovsk-khasan-border-russiadprk.html http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/khabarovsk-khas... Inside North Korea: http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north-korean-border-station.html http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north-...
IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago
long read, interesting journey. The author wonders aloud several times about the contents of the huge piles of passenger boxes constantly blocking the train corridors. Most coming from russia I'd love to peek in ! Fascinating that they really had the freedom to go about in the middle of nowhere once they reached the 1st station in NK from a seldomly-used point of entry. Bold move!
Tabular-Iceberg 1y ago
This reminds me of a rail trip I’ve always wanted to take: Western Europe to Singapore, which may not be as geopolitically interesting, but may be the longest possible continuous rail journey. When I first had the idea there was still a gap in the way in Southeast Asia, but it looks like it may have been closed now: https://www.seat61.com/map-of-train-routes-in-southeast-asia.htm https://www.seat61.com/map-of-train-routes-in-southeast-asia...
- sushibowl 1y ago
  There was an article about this journey just recently: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/portugal-to-singapore-train/ https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/portugal-to-singapore-trai... Unfortunately you may have to wait some time, at the moment the journey is not be completable because the Paris-Moscow express service (and indeed all train service between Russia and Western Europe) is suspended due to sanctions against Russia.
  - Tijdreiziger 1y ago
    Somewhat related, there is currently a guy on YouTube attempting to drive a car from Belgium to Japan. https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4OZmMlUHWw https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4OZmMlUHWw
timonoko 1y ago
Recent visit by Russian aviation blogger is much more interesting: https://youtu.be/uKEsg6dxi2k?si=kC1JWsBxE8hKhGcP https://youtu.be/uKEsg6dxi2k?si=kC1JWsBxE8hKhGcP It is quite obvious that happy citizens walking back and forth on PjongJang streets are part of massive Potemkin Village playact. Also I like this blogging style. Most others want to insert their fat face and stupid comments into every frame.
- kome 1y ago
  it's not quite obvious...
  - timonoko 1y ago
    Crowds are Markow process and tend to make groups. Casual Korean strollers are too evenly distributed.
lqet 1y ago
Really great posts, with fascinating pictures. If anyone is interested in a beautiful rail adventure with much, much less risk, I highly recommend the round trip <Western Europe> -> Zagreb -> Belgrade -> Bar -> Kotor -> Dubrovnik -> Split -> Zagreb -> <Western Europe>. This makes for a really nice 4 week trip. (The Bar -> Split leg is done via bus.) When we started this trip in early summer 2015, we expected it to be a nice and relaxed adventure - and it would've been, the landscape simply was beautiful! But then the refugee crisis happened. We saw trains in Belgrade and Zagreb that were so full that people were basically glued flat to the windows, we walked through the enormous refugee camp in Bristol Park near the old main station in Belgrade, we had to fight for tickets while train employees were simply ignoring us because they thought we were refugees trying to sneak into the train, and we had basically all ours trains cancelled on our way back. We got out of Croatia with one of the last busses before Slovenia closed the border for several days and embarked on a very strange 16 hour bus journey from Zagreb to Munich which included being held for hours at the Slovenian border station, and being inspected by German border police in full gear and with MP5s. I remember a female passenger had some problems with her passport, and she was taken away at the Austrian / Slovenian border and we continued without her.
- herbst 1y ago
  Classic German border, from all my travels nowhere in europe did I see as much heavy weapons, military and stressed out border people than between Germany and Austria and that's going on for years. Have a inner seat in a travel bus? Expect a machine gun waving in front of your face. As children when there wasn't any Schengen and there was actual border control there was WAY less military presence. We could just drive to Germany with our bikes without anyone stopping us.
  - gambiting 1y ago
    I wonder where you're from, because my childhood memories of crossing into Germany from Poland were nothing like that - very much armed guards, long car inspections, having to get out and wait while they inspected every bolt and nut.....I remember once the guard said something to my dad, then he(my dad) disappeared in the guard booth for a bit, I asked him what was that about and he said they basically wanted to do an "enhanced" search of our vehicle which would mean they would have it for up to 24 hours to strip it apart while we wait at a hotel nearby, I asked why did they do that to which my dad said "well they wanted a bribe, of course. I gave his commander a bottle of vodka as a gift for his hard work and service and suddenly they didn't need to do the enhanced inspection anymore".
lynguist 1y ago
Thank you so much for sharing this, it scratches a very particular itch I have! I love such routes and travels and plans and pictures and the writing about it.
- lynguist 1y ago
  When reading it it immediately makes me think of: - the good old “through coach” („Kurswagen“) which existed until 2013 from pretty much any train station to any train station, for example there used to be one going directly Basel-Moscow - Europe without wars and polarization, easy travel, trust - Optimism about the future, being bright-eyed and enjoying travel - The very form of the blog - Life before smartphonization

227 points by 1317 1y ago

I think I probably refer a stupid number of people to this post each year when the topic of trains and/or North Korea comes up. Read it when it came out and always found it fascinating.

cenamus 1y ago

Fascinating article, didn't know the border is/was that open via Russia

decimalenough 1y ago
It normally isn't (unless you're Russian or North Korean), which is a large reason why this story is so fascinating.
- grishka 1y ago
  I researched it a while ago as a Russian. You can't just visit North Korea by booking a ticket and going there. You have to buy a tour, and even then, while you're there, you can't move freely, can't interact with the locals, and can't have North Korean money, you can only buy things from special tourist shops for foreign currency. You're only allowed to see places and things approved by the government to be seen by foreign tourists.
  - decimalenough 1y ago
    Yes, but non-Russian tourists don't have the option to use the Tumangan crossing even on organized tours.
    - grishka 1y ago
      TIL. Though the more common route seems to be flying to Pyongyang from Vladivostok.
    - orbital-decay 1y ago
      Neither do Russian tourists. Before their trip, NK officials simply never expected any foreigners coming through it with right papers. But after this incident the loophole was closed. (I also researched this when this travel report appeared).
cyberax 1y ago
This is from 2008. Back then, North Korea was still living under the previous Kim. Back then, the border was very leaky and Koreans could move to China and Russia without a lot of barriers.

ch4s3 1y ago

The follow on posts and photos are amazing. The photos of crowds of North Koreans are really interesting, as were the earlier station photos. The material culture of the place is kind of fascinating. It's also kind of mind boggling to contemplate the lives Arirang performers[1]. What must that be like? [1] https://imageshack.com/i/exNHDHTVj https://imageshack.com/i/exNHDHTVj

Loughla 1y ago
There are just no people anywhere. Do they clear everyone out when westerners come through?
- bobmcnamara 1y ago
  They are pixels
aziaziazi 1y ago
[image of the show with a giant screen beside] https://imageshack.com/i/exQrNAZnj https://imageshack.com/i/exQrNAZnj I was like "wow that is a big screen although not very bright". > Each background picture is created by about 40.000 childrens holding tables containing pages with different pictures/colours [zoom of the "screen" with endless pixels: a color square a little head on top of each - impressionist style] https://imageshack.com/i/exw2BFluj https://imageshack.com/i/exw2BFluj
- ch4s3 1y ago
  Yeah it’s pretty incredible, and sort of horrifying.

oatsandsugar 1y ago

did he end up going?

willidiots 1y ago
Yes! There are a whole series of posts with photos and maps. Click the red "Tumangan, we are coming!!!" link at the bottom of the first post to jump to the next one, etc.
- echelon_musk 1y ago
  Thanks. I didn't realise the red text was a hyperlink either. To save anyone else the hassle, this is where he finally crosses into NK: https://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north-korean-border-station.html https://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north...
  - izacus 1y ago
    What hassle are you talking about? Reading about the trip?
  - anotheracc3 1y ago
    Keep going and going and going. There are a lot of trains (of course) but once you get past that there are a lot of very interesting photos, especially the shows that look extravagent and unique. This guy documents his trips well! Hope it is backed up well (guess on the archive sites).
cosmicgadget 1y ago
Yeah only after clicking the home button did I realize that '<' is next. It suddenly got a lot less ominous.
- netsharc 1y ago
  Ah, the blogosphere "Reverse chronological" order: Hit "< Prev" to read the chronologically next post...

te_chris 1y ago

This is one of the best bits of the internet and should be at the top.

geye1234 1y ago

If you wanted to explain to someone what the 00s-blogging phenomenon was all about, and to given them an example of the best of it, you may well point to this. Photos of NK like these are incredibly difficult to come by. What a beautiful country. Also, I admire his courage. In several photos, military people are staring at him, as they may well be. He was lucky as well. He states he hid the photos in a zip file in his C:\windows folder when leaving the country, having deleted them from his SD Card.

ValentineC 1y ago

I think I spent maybe 2 hours appreciating the author's journey. This has been one of my best reads of the month, and I hope that I'll one day get to visit Pyongyang myself, without the US visa waiver issues that come with it.

openplatypus 1y ago
Same here. Proves that good content, not fancy CSS or animations, is still the king.

sira04 1y ago

Is there anyone who has archived this into a PDF or ebook format? I'd love to save and read it in another way.

ubermonkey 1y ago

Pretty sure I read this when it was new. Wild.

saubeidl 1y ago

Reading this made me nostalgic for the old internet and sad about what it's become since. I miss the days of blogs and forums and authentic content like this. Today it's all hyperpolished platforms filled with clickbaity influencers. Every step of the way, somebody's trying to extract as much money as they can. I can't help but think that we in this community played a big part in turning it into what it is now and that thought fills me with regret.

steamrolled 1y ago
The old internet is still there, it just hasn't scaled as quickly as everything else. And frankly, we have a role to play if we want to preserve and nourish it. You say you liked the site. Drop the author a thank you note. Amplify it beyond pressing the "up" arrow on HN. It's not just about the author: show others that this kind of stuff is valued. Today, the signals young content creators get is that they can make dumb videos on YouTube or TikTok and get 10M subscribers and ad revenue, or set up a geeky blog that will get 100 views a month. But it's not Google or TikTok that did this: it's the content consumers.
- jazzyb 1y ago
  > But it's not Google or TikTok that did this: it's the content consumers. Given the intentionally addictive algorithms and psychological manipulation used by the big tech companies, I think at least some of the blame can be placed on them.
greenavocado 1y ago
I am reposting one of my favorite Quora adventure stories for the sake of posterity: What is the strangest thing you've seen at the airport? By Aurelio Germes: The strangest thing I've seen was to find nobody not even police or security at the airport, so I took a plane and left the country without anyone noticing it. It was at the international airport in Malabo, island of Bioko in Equatorial Guinea. It happened that I had missed my flight from Malabo to Madrid departing on Sunday and I didn't want to wait a whole week for the next weekly flight, so I decided to call a pilot in Cameroon and charter his plane to come and pick me up in Malabo and take me to the Douala airport in Cameroon where I could more easily catch a plane to Paris. We arranged date and hour of his arrival to Malabo. On the date agreed I went to the international airport only to find out that it was closed since that day no flights, neither international nor domestic, were scheduled. There was nobody there not even a guard or a clerk, but it was already too late to cancel the trip. The only way out was to jump the wall surrounding the airport and wait on the runway until an aircraft arrived, and that's what I did. I didn't have to wait long. A small plane with a French pilot arrived and soon we were ready to fly to Douala with me in the copilot seat. We could not take off in our first attempt since a door of the aircraft opened unexpectedly when we were about to take off, but we succeeded in our second attempt. Due to lack of security, nobody noticed that a plane had arrived at the international airport and left with a passenger.

bananaboy 1y ago

This reminds me a bit of Paul Theroux’s “The Old Patagonian Express” where he tries to make a trip from the northern US all the way to the southern tip of South America. It’s a great read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Patagonian_Express https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Old_Patagonian_Express

throwaway2037 1y ago
Similar, but Japan: The Roads to Sata by Alan Booth
- waste_monk 1y ago
  I hope they do the roads to NVMe next.

starik36 1y ago

A throwback to more hopeful times. The new internet really did a number on us.

gus_massa 1y ago

Old discussions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11139896 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11139896 (155 points | Feb 2016 | 30 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2155794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2155794 (124 points | Jan 2011 | 19 comments)

peterburkimsher 1y ago

Want to see photos of the labour camp in Chegdomyn? Went there in 2010, then on a tour to Pyongyang in 2011.

homeless_engi 1y ago
Yes, if you have photos please do share!
- peterburkimsher 1y ago
  Photos of where? The labour camp or somewhere else? @Homeless_engi
  - tomaytotomato 1y ago
    Answering on behalf of @Homeless_engi :- Photos of both places please
    - peterburkimsher 1y ago
      Uploaded where?

mNovak 1y ago

This was a really great read (read the whole travelogue), and I'm really glad these photos are still being hosted. I always wonder how long the shelf life of this sort freely published content will be. Even within the blog, he includes links to blogs or photos of others he encountered, and most of them seemed dead.

ValdikSS 1y ago
I was pleasantly surprised that imageshack still hosts all the pictures, as all mine from it were gone. UPD: the Eurasia 2005 posts have images from imageshack _us_, all are unavailable.

suzzer99 1y ago

What a crazy place to see the Pacific Ocean for the first time in your life. The point where the Russian, Chinese, and N. Korean borders meet has to be one of the weirdest, most fascinating, most forbidden (for most of us, and especially Americans) places on earth. Maybe someday tourists will be able to stand on it like the 4 Corners in the US. Well I guess technically it's in the river. But they could rig something up.

SoftTalker 1y ago
North Korea has some beautiful coastlines and mountains, seems like they could make a lot of money on tourism if they would open up and make sure visitors feel safe.
- edm0nd 1y ago
  I don't think its possible for the Norks to "make sure visitors feel safe", its just not how they operate. If they can capture a tourist to turn into a political pawn, they will. Same goes for RU and China and even America. It's a global game and they all are willing to play it.
rtpg 1y ago
https://maps.app.goo.gl/DURwu3dHtt9aUWBm8 https://maps.app.goo.gl/DURwu3dHtt9aUWBm8 At the very least you can go to this mountain on the Chinese - NK border ("you"... I, as an American, went along with a mainland Chinese person). People do live in these places and there are (well, were...) cross-border interactions. I just stood kinda close to the border and was like "I guess I could just jump over?" There were cameras but that's it. There's not some magical thing when you look across the border and "feel the oppression", in some of the border towns on the Chinese side there were ads for tours where you could go to NK and do some shopping for cigarettes or something. I do not believe I would be able to sign up for those though. I was just visiting but it's how I imagine some parts of the US/Mexico border are like? It's not like that area of China is super vibrant either, pretty industrial. I have the impression that when Russia gets involved border stuff gets messy, if all those videos of people driving across Georgia and the like are to be believed.

edm0nd 1y ago

some more links from the same author The start of our trip with the North Korean train (still inside Russia): http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/irkutsk-skovorodino.html http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/irkutsk-skovoro... Approaching the border between Russia and North Korea (the last kilometers inside Russia): http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/khabarovsk-khasan-border-russiadprk.html http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/khabarovsk-khas... Inside North Korea: http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north-korean-border-station.html http://vienna-pyongyang.blogspot.com/2008/09/tumangan-north-...

IG_Semmelweiss 1y ago

long read, interesting journey. The author wonders aloud several times about the contents of the huge piles of passenger boxes constantly blocking the train corridors. Most coming from russia I'd love to peek in ! Fascinating that they really had the freedom to go about in the middle of nowhere once they reached the 1st station in NK from a seldomly-used point of entry. Bold move!

Tabular-Iceberg 1y ago

This reminds me of a rail trip I’ve always wanted to take: Western Europe to Singapore, which may not be as geopolitically interesting, but may be the longest possible continuous rail journey. When I first had the idea there was still a gap in the way in Southeast Asia, but it looks like it may have been closed now: https://www.seat61.com/map-of-train-routes-in-southeast-asia.htm https://www.seat61.com/map-of-train-routes-in-southeast-asia...

sushibowl 1y ago
There was an article about this journey just recently: https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/portugal-to-singapore-train/ https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/portugal-to-singapore-trai... Unfortunately you may have to wait some time, at the moment the journey is not be completable because the Paris-Moscow express service (and indeed all train service between Russia and Western Europe) is suspended due to sanctions against Russia.
- Tijdreiziger 1y ago
  Somewhat related, there is currently a guy on YouTube attempting to drive a car from Belgium to Japan. https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4OZmMlUHWw https://youtube.com/watch?v=w4OZmMlUHWw

timonoko 1y ago

Recent visit by Russian aviation blogger is much more interesting: https://youtu.be/uKEsg6dxi2k?si=kC1JWsBxE8hKhGcP https://youtu.be/uKEsg6dxi2k?si=kC1JWsBxE8hKhGcP It is quite obvious that happy citizens walking back and forth on PjongJang streets are part of massive Potemkin Village playact. Also I like this blogging style. Most others want to insert their fat face and stupid comments into every frame.

kome 1y ago
it's not quite obvious...
- timonoko 1y ago
  Crowds are Markow process and tend to make groups. Casual Korean strollers are too evenly distributed.

lqet 1y ago

Really great posts, with fascinating pictures. If anyone is interested in a beautiful rail adventure with much, much less risk, I highly recommend the round trip <Western Europe> -> Zagreb -> Belgrade -> Bar -> Kotor -> Dubrovnik -> Split -> Zagreb -> <Western Europe>. This makes for a really nice 4 week trip. (The Bar -> Split leg is done via bus.) When we started this trip in early summer 2015, we expected it to be a nice and relaxed adventure - and it would've been, the landscape simply was beautiful! But then the refugee crisis happened. We saw trains in Belgrade and Zagreb that were so full that people were basically glued flat to the windows, we walked through the enormous refugee camp in Bristol Park near the old main station in Belgrade, we had to fight for tickets while train employees were simply ignoring us because they thought we were refugees trying to sneak into the train, and we had basically all ours trains cancelled on our way back. We got out of Croatia with one of the last busses before Slovenia closed the border for several days and embarked on a very strange 16 hour bus journey from Zagreb to Munich which included being held for hours at the Slovenian border station, and being inspected by German border police in full gear and with MP5s. I remember a female passenger had some problems with her passport, and she was taken away at the Austrian / Slovenian border and we continued without her.

herbst 1y ago
Classic German border, from all my travels nowhere in europe did I see as much heavy weapons, military and stressed out border people than between Germany and Austria and that's going on for years. Have a inner seat in a travel bus? Expect a machine gun waving in front of your face. As children when there wasn't any Schengen and there was actual border control there was WAY less military presence. We could just drive to Germany with our bikes without anyone stopping us.
- gambiting 1y ago
  I wonder where you're from, because my childhood memories of crossing into Germany from Poland were nothing like that - very much armed guards, long car inspections, having to get out and wait while they inspected every bolt and nut.....I remember once the guard said something to my dad, then he(my dad) disappeared in the guard booth for a bit, I asked him what was that about and he said they basically wanted to do an "enhanced" search of our vehicle which would mean they would have it for up to 24 hours to strip it apart while we wait at a hotel nearby, I asked why did they do that to which my dad said "well they wanted a bribe, of course. I gave his commander a bottle of vodka as a gift for his hard work and service and suddenly they didn't need to do the enhanced inspection anymore".

lynguist 1y ago

Thank you so much for sharing this, it scratches a very particular itch I have! I love such routes and travels and plans and pictures and the writing about it.

lynguist 1y ago
When reading it it immediately makes me think of: - the good old “through coach” („Kurswagen“) which existed until 2013 from pretty much any train station to any train station, for example there used to be one going directly Basel-Moscow - Europe without wars and polarization, easy travel, trust - Optimism about the future, being bright-eyed and enjoying travel - The very form of the blog - Life before smartphonization