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> symptomatic of some sort of Stockholm syndrome I have since moved to macbooks for the hardware, but until not too long ago WSL was my linux "distro" of choic

> symptomatic of some sort of Stockholm syndrome I have since moved to macbooks for the hardware, but until not too long ago WSL was my linux "distro" of choice because I didn't want to spend time configuring my computer to make basic things work like suspend/wake on lid down/up, battery life, hardware acceleration for video playback on the browser, display scaling on external monitor and so on.

encom 1y ago
You need new reasons to hate Linux, because all those issues were solved a while ago.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- frollogaston 1y ago
  There's no way, especially if you include Bluetooth in that list.
- alex_smart 1y ago
  I don't need new reasons to hate Linux. Like I said, I have moved to macbooks as my personal computing device because of the better hardware. > solved a while ago Can not be the case because I was facing these issues less than a couple of years ago. I was responding to the "Stockholm syndrome" comment specifically because there are a number of hardware and software problems (e.g. https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna...) with using linux as a desktop operating system that linux users have to find their way around, so I found the comment rather full of irony. PS: I already know that the file-picker issue has been fixed. That does not take away from the fact that it was in fact broken for decades. It is only meant as an example.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    > Can not be the case because I was facing these issues less than a couple of years ago Just like with Mac and Windows, you choose the supported hardware, and everything is flawless.
    - frollogaston 1y ago
      If there's some set of fully Linux-capable laptops out there, it's a small subset of the Windows-capable ones. And it's not clear what the Linux ones are. Like, our dept ordered officially Linux-supported Thinkpads for whoever wanted them, and turns out they still have unsolved Bluetooth audio problems. Those people use wired headphones now.
      - trelane 1y ago
        This is true. Until people pay reliably for Linux hardware instead of Windows, that will always be the case, just as it is for Mac. Just like Mac, though, the key is to buy from a vendor that ships hardware designed for Linux, with Linux preinstalled, and with support for Linux. Unlike, Mac, though, Linux won't block you from installing it on Windows hardware, so it's not as obvious that you're on your own.
    - alex_smart 1y ago
      And what is supported hardware here? What even is "support"?
      - frollogaston 1y ago
        As far as I can tell, Chromebooks are the only truly supported GNU/Linux laptops.
        trelane 1y ago
        System76 is my go-to. There are others. You can even get some major vendors (Dell, Lenovo) to ship with Linux preinstalled, though I don't know if the firmware or chips diverge from the Windows variants.
- JoshTriplett 1y ago
  There is a reason why 1) people whose main environment is Linux feel (correctly) that these problems have been solved a long time ago, and 2) people whose main environment is not Linux but who try Linux occasionally feel (correctly) that these problems still occasionally crop up. People whose main environment is Linux intentionally buy hardware that works flawlessly with Linux. People who try Linux occasionally do it on whatever hardware they have, which still almost always works with Linux, but there are occasional issues with sketchy Windows-only hardware or insufficiently tested firmware or flaky wifi cards, and that is enough for there to be valid anecdotes in any given comments section with several people saying they tried it and it isn't perfect. Because "perfect" is a very high bar.
  - okanat 1y ago
    > people whose main environment is Linux feel (correctly) that these problems have been solved a long time ago There is also the quiet part to this. People who religiously use Linux and think that it is the best OS that can ever be, don't realize how many little optimizations go into a consumer OS. They use outdated hardware. They use the lower end models of the peripherals (people still recommend 96 DPI screens just for this). They use limited capabilities of that hardware. They don't rely on deeply interactive user interfaces.
    - bongodongobob 1y ago
      Linux is basically everyone's go to for older devices. Windows 10 will run like shit on a 10 year old laptop with 4GB RAM but latest Ubuntu is nice and snappy.
      - okanat 1y ago
        I have a 13 year old laptop that runs Windows 10. I cannot run Linux because neither nouveau nor Nvidia drivers support its GPU. It has 8 GiBs of RAM and it works perfectly for light browsing and document editing.
        1y ago
dismalaf 1y ago
Who deals with this? All this is fine out of the box on a modern Linux distro.
- alex_smart 1y ago
  That was certainly not the case ~2 years ago, the last time I installed linux on a laptop. It also doesn't appear to be the case even now. I searched for laptops available in my country that fit my budget and for each laptop searched "<laptop name> linux reddit" on google and filtered for results <1 year old. Each laptop's reports included some or other bug. https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1hfqptw/linux_experience_with_hp_envy_x360_2024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1hfqptw/linu... https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1esntt3/lenovo_ideapad_slim_5_gen_9_amd_8845hs_16_inch/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1esntt3/leno... https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1j3983j/hp_omnibook_ultra_14_ryzen_ai_9_365_a_short_review/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1j3983j/hp_o... https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1k1nsm8/audio_not_working_lenovo_yoga_7_pro_intel_ultra_7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1k1nsm8/audi... The laptop with the best reported linux support seemed to be Thinkpad P14s but even there users reported tweaking some config to get fans to run silently and to make the speakers sound acceptable. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1c81rw4/thinkpad_p14s_first_impressions_and_linux_configs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1c81rw4/thinkpad_...
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    > linux Which Linux? Each distro is essentially a different operating system.
    - alex_smart 1y ago
      I thought you said everything should work seamlessly on any modern distro.
      - dismalaf 1y ago

encom 1y ago

You need new reasons to hate Linux, because all those issues were solved a while ago.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
frollogaston 1y ago
There's no way, especially if you include Bluetooth in that list.
alex_smart 1y ago
I don't need new reasons to hate Linux. Like I said, I have moved to macbooks as my personal computing device because of the better hardware. > solved a while ago Can not be the case because I was facing these issues less than a couple of years ago. I was responding to the "Stockholm syndrome" comment specifically because there are a number of hardware and software problems (e.g. https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbnails-in-the-file-picker https://jayfax.neocities.org/mediocrity/gnome-has-no-thumbna...) with using linux as a desktop operating system that linux users have to find their way around, so I found the comment rather full of irony. PS: I already know that the file-picker issue has been fixed. That does not take away from the fact that it was in fact broken for decades. It is only meant as an example.
- fsflover 1y ago
  > Can not be the case because I was facing these issues less than a couple of years ago Just like with Mac and Windows, you choose the supported hardware, and everything is flawless.
  - frollogaston 1y ago
    If there's some set of fully Linux-capable laptops out there, it's a small subset of the Windows-capable ones. And it's not clear what the Linux ones are. Like, our dept ordered officially Linux-supported Thinkpads for whoever wanted them, and turns out they still have unsolved Bluetooth audio problems. Those people use wired headphones now.
    - trelane 1y ago
      This is true. Until people pay reliably for Linux hardware instead of Windows, that will always be the case, just as it is for Mac. Just like Mac, though, the key is to buy from a vendor that ships hardware designed for Linux, with Linux preinstalled, and with support for Linux. Unlike, Mac, though, Linux won't block you from installing it on Windows hardware, so it's not as obvious that you're on your own.
  - alex_smart 1y ago
    And what is supported hardware here? What even is "support"?
    - frollogaston 1y ago
      As far as I can tell, Chromebooks are the only truly supported GNU/Linux laptops.
      - trelane 1y ago
        System76 is my go-to. There are others. You can even get some major vendors (Dell, Lenovo) to ship with Linux preinstalled, though I don't know if the firmware or chips diverge from the Windows variants.
JoshTriplett 1y ago
There is a reason why 1) people whose main environment is Linux feel (correctly) that these problems have been solved a long time ago, and 2) people whose main environment is not Linux but who try Linux occasionally feel (correctly) that these problems still occasionally crop up. People whose main environment is Linux intentionally buy hardware that works flawlessly with Linux. People who try Linux occasionally do it on whatever hardware they have, which still almost always works with Linux, but there are occasional issues with sketchy Windows-only hardware or insufficiently tested firmware or flaky wifi cards, and that is enough for there to be valid anecdotes in any given comments section with several people saying they tried it and it isn't perfect. Because "perfect" is a very high bar.
- okanat 1y ago
  > people whose main environment is Linux feel (correctly) that these problems have been solved a long time ago There is also the quiet part to this. People who religiously use Linux and think that it is the best OS that can ever be, don't realize how many little optimizations go into a consumer OS. They use outdated hardware. They use the lower end models of the peripherals (people still recommend 96 DPI screens just for this). They use limited capabilities of that hardware. They don't rely on deeply interactive user interfaces.
  - bongodongobob 1y ago
    Linux is basically everyone's go to for older devices. Windows 10 will run like shit on a 10 year old laptop with 4GB RAM but latest Ubuntu is nice and snappy.
    - okanat 1y ago
      I have a 13 year old laptop that runs Windows 10. I cannot run Linux because neither nouveau nor Nvidia drivers support its GPU. It has 8 GiBs of RAM and it works perfectly for light browsing and document editing.
      - 1y ago

dismalaf 1y ago

Who deals with this? All this is fine out of the box on a modern Linux distro.

alex_smart 1y ago
That was certainly not the case ~2 years ago, the last time I installed linux on a laptop. It also doesn't appear to be the case even now. I searched for laptops available in my country that fit my budget and for each laptop searched "<laptop name> linux reddit" on google and filtered for results <1 year old. Each laptop's reports included some or other bug. https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1hfqptw/linux_experience_with_hp_envy_x360_2024/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1hfqptw/linu... https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1esntt3/lenovo_ideapad_slim_5_gen_9_amd_8845hs_16_inch/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1esntt3/leno... https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1j3983j/hp_omnibook_ultra_14_ryzen_ai_9_365_a_short_review/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1j3983j/hp_o... https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1k1nsm8/audio_not_working_lenovo_yoga_7_pro_intel_ultra_7/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linuxhardware/comments/1k1nsm8/audi... The laptop with the best reported linux support seemed to be Thinkpad P14s but even there users reported tweaking some config to get fans to run silently and to make the speakers sound acceptable. https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1c81rw4/thinkpad_p14s_first_impressions_and_linux_configs/ https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comments/1c81rw4/thinkpad_...
- dismalaf 1y ago
  > linux Which Linux? Each distro is essentially a different operating system.
  - alex_smart 1y ago
    I thought you said everything should work seamlessly on any modern distro.
    - dismalaf 1y ago