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Microsoft can't name a project leading with a trademark (Linux <something>), hence why it's called WSL. Source: https://x.com/richturn_ms/status/12454814059470
by avestura 1y ago
Microsoft can't name a project leading with a trademark (Linux <something>), hence why it's called WSL.
Source: https://x.com/richturn_ms/status/1245481405947076610?s=19 https://x.com/richturn_ms/status/1245481405947076610?s=19
- philshem 1y agoIf you want to see the thread https://xcancel.com/richturn_ms/status/1245481405947076610?s=19 https://xcancel.com/richturn_ms/status/1245481405947076610?s...
- tacker2000 1y agoVery interesting comment there: “ I still hope to see a true "Windows Subsystem for Linux" by Microsoft or a windows becoming a linux distribution itself and dropping the NT kernel to legacy. Windows is currently overloaded with features and does lack a package manager to only get what you need...”
- okanat 1y agoNT is a better consumer kernel that Linux. It can survive many driver crashes that Linux cannot. Why should Microsoft drop a better kernel for a worse one?
- ashirviskas 1y agoCan you expand on this? I've used Windows 10 for 2-3 years when it came out and I remember BSODs being hell. Now I only experienced something close to that when I set up multiseat on single PC with AMD and Nvidia GPUs and one of them decided to fall asleep. Or when I undervolt GPU too much.
- okanat 1y agoOf course that depends on the component and the access level. RAM chip broken? Tough luck. A deep kernel driver accessing random memory like CrowdStrike; you'll still crash. One needs an almost microkernel-like separation for preventing such issues. However, there are certain APIs like WDDM timeout detection and recovery: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/display/timeout-detection-and-recovery https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/d... . It is like a watchdog that'll restart the driver without BSOD'ing. You'll get a crash dump out of it too.
- _flux 1y agoMeanwhile in Linux we cannot even restart compositor without killing all GUI apps. I swear sometimes progress goes backwards..
- uecker 1y agoIs this a Wayland issue? This works fine for me on X. But yes, progress goes backwards in Linux. I had hope for the Linux desktop around 2005-2010, since then it only got worse.
- okanat 1y agoIf your $DISPLAY managed by Xorg server goes away your X apps will also crash. Wayland combines the server with the parts that draw your window decoration into the same process. Under Windows everything including the GPU driver can crash. As long as it didn't take the kernel with it, causing a BSOD. Your applications can keep running.
- uecker 1y agoI can restart window manager and compositor just fine in X. Also it is not generally true that X apps crash when the server goes away. This is a limitation of some client libraries, but I wrote X apps myself that could survive this (or even move their display to a new server). It is of course sad that popular client libraries never got this functionality under Linux, but this is a problem of having wrong development priorities.
- naikrovek 1y agoPeople that comment things like this probably have their heart in the right place, but they do not understand just how aggressive Microsoft is about backwards compatibility. The only way to get this compatibility in Linux would be to port those features all over to Linux and if that happened the entire planet would implode because everyone would say “I knew it! Embrace Extend Extinguish!” At the same time.
- bongodongobob 1y agoI agree. For years I supported some bespoke manufacturing software that was written in the 80s and abandoned in the late 90s. In the installer, there were checks to see what version of DOS was running. Shit ran just fine on XP through W10 and server 2016. We had to rig up some dummy COM ports, but beyond that, it just fuckin worked.
- koakuma-chan 1y agoGNU/Linux Subsystem for Windows
- whoopdedo 1y agoIBM marketed "OS/2 for Windows" which made it sound like a compatibility layer to make Windows behave like OS/2. In truth it was the OS/2 operating system with drivers and conversion tools that made it easier for people who were used to Windows.
- loloquwowndueo 1y agoUntrue. OS/2 for windows leveraged the user’s existing copy of windows for os/2’s compatibility function instead of relying on a bundled copy of windows, like the “full” Os/2 version. Os/2 basically ran a copy of windows (either the existing one or bundled one) to then execute windows programs side by side with os/2 (and DOS) software.
- ryao 1y agoIt was previously called the Windows Subsystem for Android before it pivoted. It had a spiritual predecessor called Windows Services for UNIX. I doubt the name had been chosen for the reasons you say, considering the history. That said, to address the grandparent comment’s point, it probably should be read as “Windows Subsystem for Linux (Applications)”.
- avestura 1y ago>for the reasons you say That's not what I say, that's what the former PM Lead of WSL said. To be fair, Windows Services for UNIX was just Unix services for Windows. Probably the same logic applied there back then: they couldn't name it with a leading trademark (Unix), so they went with what was available.
- naikrovek 1y agoWSA was a separate thing. WSA and WSL both coexisted for a time.
- ryao 1y agoWikipedia states that WSL was made based on WSA.
- naikrovek 1y agoGot a link? WSA didn’t come out until Windows 11 was released, and WSL predates Windows 11.
- ryao 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Subsystem_for_Linux#Hi... It was called Project Astoria previously. Microsoft releasing the Windows Subsystem for Android for Windows 11 is news to me. I thought that they had killed that in 2016.
- 1y ago
- einpoklum 1y agoThey should not presume to trademark something called a "Linux subsystem for Windows".
- yoda222 1y agoSubsystem Linux for Windows.