6 ms·

STL Hackathon Canceled After Social Backlash

76 points by philip1209 14y ago

stratos2 14y ago
The winning team comes up an with idea, it becomes IP of Teralogix who are then sued by a patent troll for infringement. The current state of affairs..
gumdad 14y ago
Haha. This is great. Seems young programmers are not so naive about IP after all, eh Teralogix? Nice try. Way to go St. Louis hacking community. Always read the fine print, and ask questions.
- vnchr 14y ago
  After talking to Teralogix, it seems this was the result of an overzealous legal team and a novice marketing lead on the project--as opposed to well informed and well orchestrated deviousness on behalf of the organizing company. I agree, applause for those who discovered the clause, but the better outcome would have been for Teralogix to do it right. Sadly, that didn't happen either.
  - grobertson 14y ago
    That's still an incredibly lame excuse. Someone took the time to write that language into the contract, and whether through malice or inaction, no one corrected it. It's unforgivable no matter who you point fingers at internally.
  - gumdad 14y ago
    Every employee is a representative of the company. That includes the legal and marketing departments. And it is indeed, as another commenter calls it, lame for persons outside those departments to use them as an excuse. It's their responsibility to communicate with their colleagues and present a consistent face of the company. I know little about Teralogix, but from reading of this little stunt I am not sure I want to. Extremely unprofessional.
vnchr 14y ago
I'm pretty disappointed with Teralogix on this, front and back. I reached out to them early to offer help since their organizer wasn't plugged in to the local dev or startup scenes. There was no follow up. Then when that nasty legal note was discovered, I reached out again and found out that their intent was to make it an offer to join Teralogix and be funded by them, not a requirement. Alas, they fumbled both and I'm disappointed we won't get to see some new ideas from this event.
- veemjeem 14y ago
  I feel like hackathons are going mainstream. Companies will run hackathons because they "heard" it helps with hiring, but won't change any of their standard legal paperwork for IP developed on their premises.
  - spitfire 14y ago
    The sponsored hackathon is the new 40 year old guy throwing on a leather jacket attending indie shows to sign bands. The value of the hackathon is rapidly diminishing. In fact I'd venture to say once they started to be formally organized they started to devalue.
hospadam 14y ago
First - I'm quite happy that the event has gotten shut down, for now. Second - I've always felt like this was the case of a company trying to do something they didn't fully understand. I got the vibe that these terms were cooked up by a lawyer in order to "protect" and "provide value" to Teralogix. I just wish they would have been more responsive to the community.
dylanhassinger 14y ago
derpa derp
prezjordan 14y ago
Unrelated - these Svbtle clones are getting out of hand. I guess this one isn't so bad because the button placement and giant caricature are different, but still.
- robryan 14y ago
  I like it as they generally work really well on mobile. Much prefer that to individual layouts that force you to use readability or similar.
- benatkin 14y ago
  The kudos widget is a direct ripoff. The notable differences like the charicature are probably deviations from the WordPress theme.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    The kudos widget bothers me, but Svbtle has a nice, clean design and I don't think there's anything wrong with copying it.
- le_isms 14y ago
  Just curious, why does this bother you?
  - prezjordan 14y ago
    It's too close for comfort. I'm not saying any layout with Helvetica and a sidebar is automatically a Svbtle clone, but this is clearly stolen design, and that doesn't sit well with me.
    - le_isms 14y ago
      I can understand, however, did you know that Svbtle is 'inspired' from http://drawar.com/ http://drawar.com/ ?
      - 14y ago
ricardobeat 14y ago
Is that a "pirated" svbtle theme?
- vnchr 14y ago
  "WP-Svbtle" by Gravity on Mars: http://gravityonmars.com/2012/03/28/svbtle-based-on-wordpress/ http://gravityonmars.com/2012/03/28/svbtle-based-on-wordpres...
  - ricardobeat 14y ago
    ugh. Why would you copy some closed community's look? It gives a terrible impression. Wait a sec while I post about copyright on my techcrunch clone blog.
    - jrockway 14y ago
      "Great artists steal," or something.
  - DrJ 14y ago
    thanks for the link, I combined that with https://github.com/mhoofman/wordpress-heroku/ https://github.com/mhoofman/wordpress-heroku/ and now we can have one-click svbtle clones on heroku!
tholman 14y ago
You seem like a smart guy, and I really like your writing style... but why use the flakey Svbtle clone... you can do better than that :)
- inuhj 14y ago
  how is it flakey?
- philip1209 14y ago
  I'm open to suggestions :-)
jlarocco 14y ago
What is an "STL Hackathon"? Is it related to the C++ standard library STL? The STL file format? Has it been mentioned on HN before?
- jrockway 14y ago
  STL means St. Louis.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
- tedivm 14y ago
  It's the location, St. Louis.
- mkopinsky 14y ago
  If you read the article, it's pretty clear that it's referring to St. Louis. While I agree that it should have spelled it out in the title, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to click through and RTFA.
  - heretoo 14y ago
    > RTFA It's not spelt out whether your intent here is to berate the guy or not, but I get the distinct impression that it is. Your response is rude and uncalled for. I read the article and it's not clear to me that STL is supposed to be equivalent to St Louis, because it isn't spelt out, and furthermore, I don't intend on looking it up in a dictionary of acronyms referring to foreign places that I may never visit, without first knowing that STL refers to a place.
  - shocks 14y ago
    No. It's not "pretty clear". I read the article and I had no idea. But then, if you'd have RTFA then perhaps you would have known that too?
    - 14y ago
ChuckMcM 14y ago
Sad story. Back in the 90's I used to eat with friends at an Unamas! mexican restaurant which had a jar where you could drop your business card for a chance to win a free lunch. I asked them what they did with the cards, they didn't know. So I asked them how could I collect my free lunch if I won? They said "You will get a coupon which you can bring in for a lunch." I said "When does the winner get picked?" and they said "Every Friday, someone comes by to get the cards, they pick the winner over the weekend. So on Friday I went over at 5:30 and waited for the cards to be picked up. In comes a well dressed lady with another jar, same labelling, drops it off and picks up the one with cards. I intercept her on the way out, and ask what she is doing with the cards. As it turns out, she was the receptionist for a recruiter in the valley, they took all of the business cards, added these people to the list of people who they told their clients were 'looking for jobs' and then tried to move them from one job to another. I pointed out that Calfornia state law required all of that information to be available at the point where you entered the 'contest.' She said she would pass it on. On Wednesday when I went in the jar was gone.
- signalsignal 14y ago
  There is no free ride, but their are free trials.
- rmc 14y ago
  That would also be illegal in the European Union. The Data Protection Directive requires all uses of personal data be opt in (ie you cannot use someone's personal data for a purpose they didn't opt in to), that personal data be kept accurately (you cannot say that someone is looking for a job if they are not) and it also limits how companies can contact you (so the recruiter would not be legally able to contact you nd they found a job)
  - rmc 14y ago
    I think it would also be illegal to share that personal data with other bodies (so the restaurant cannot give the business cards to someone else). It's all kinds of illegal.
kemayo 14y ago
Wait, we have a hacking scene in St Louis? Crazy.
- vnchr 14y ago
  Come hang out with us! This Friday is Code til Dawn: http://meetup.com/allnightlong http://meetup.com/allnightlong
  - sillysaurus 14y ago
    What, really? That's awesome! How've you been liking it? It looks like there were 20 people last meetup.
    - philip1209 14y ago
      I love it! I'll be there.
      - count 14y ago
        How many of these folks are AFNIC-related? Is there a big non-DOD presence in STL for tech stuff?
        philip1209 14y ago
        I honestly don't know of anybody who comes to code-until-dawn events that has military background. Ed Domain who started Techli was Air Force Reserves, but I don't know if hee was AFNIC.
- dylanhassinger 14y ago
  also a startup scene - http://meetup.startlouis.com http://meetup.startlouis.com
brackin 14y ago
The sad thing is I've seen hackathon's happen that have similar terms. One was a student one where 50% of whatever anyone made would be owned by the founder and he had the right to invest if he saw fit.
rmc 14y ago
I wonder if you could 'hack' this by working on a project that won, and to use and depend on GPL (or even AGPL) software. If they use it, you've made them open source their code.
- andreasvc 14y ago
  As long as they don't distribute the code, it's not a problem. Companies can maintain an in-house fork of GPL projects without having to release the source.
  - rmc 14y ago
    If it's AGPL they have to release it the software is publically available. That's the point of the AGPL.
    - andreasvc 14y ago
      > As long as they don't distribute the code
      - rmc 14y ago
        No. If you have Affero GPL (AGPL) licenced code, you have to make the source code available if you make the programme "accessible to the public over the internet", even if you don't distribute the code. It's a new licence from the FSF, designed for web applications and the modern 'cloud'/'internet' world.
        catshirt 14y ago
        please read between the lines here. "Companies can maintain an in-house fork..."

76 points by philip1209 14y ago

The winning team comes up an with idea, it becomes IP of Teralogix who are then sued by a patent troll for infringement. The current state of affairs..

gumdad 14y ago

Haha. This is great. Seems young programmers are not so naive about IP after all, eh Teralogix? Nice try. Way to go St. Louis hacking community. Always read the fine print, and ask questions.

vnchr 14y ago
After talking to Teralogix, it seems this was the result of an overzealous legal team and a novice marketing lead on the project--as opposed to well informed and well orchestrated deviousness on behalf of the organizing company. I agree, applause for those who discovered the clause, but the better outcome would have been for Teralogix to do it right. Sadly, that didn't happen either.
- grobertson 14y ago
  That's still an incredibly lame excuse. Someone took the time to write that language into the contract, and whether through malice or inaction, no one corrected it. It's unforgivable no matter who you point fingers at internally.
- gumdad 14y ago
  Every employee is a representative of the company. That includes the legal and marketing departments. And it is indeed, as another commenter calls it, lame for persons outside those departments to use them as an excuse. It's their responsibility to communicate with their colleagues and present a consistent face of the company. I know little about Teralogix, but from reading of this little stunt I am not sure I want to. Extremely unprofessional.

vnchr 14y ago

I'm pretty disappointed with Teralogix on this, front and back. I reached out to them early to offer help since their organizer wasn't plugged in to the local dev or startup scenes. There was no follow up. Then when that nasty legal note was discovered, I reached out again and found out that their intent was to make it an offer to join Teralogix and be funded by them, not a requirement. Alas, they fumbled both and I'm disappointed we won't get to see some new ideas from this event.

veemjeem 14y ago
I feel like hackathons are going mainstream. Companies will run hackathons because they "heard" it helps with hiring, but won't change any of their standard legal paperwork for IP developed on their premises.
- spitfire 14y ago
  The sponsored hackathon is the new 40 year old guy throwing on a leather jacket attending indie shows to sign bands. The value of the hackathon is rapidly diminishing. In fact I'd venture to say once they started to be formally organized they started to devalue.

hospadam 14y ago

First - I'm quite happy that the event has gotten shut down, for now. Second - I've always felt like this was the case of a company trying to do something they didn't fully understand. I got the vibe that these terms were cooked up by a lawyer in order to "protect" and "provide value" to Teralogix. I just wish they would have been more responsive to the community.

dylanhassinger 14y ago

derpa derp

prezjordan 14y ago

Unrelated - these Svbtle clones are getting out of hand. I guess this one isn't so bad because the button placement and giant caricature are different, but still.

robryan 14y ago
I like it as they generally work really well on mobile. Much prefer that to individual layouts that force you to use readability or similar.
benatkin 14y ago
The kudos widget is a direct ripoff. The notable differences like the charicature are probably deviations from the WordPress theme.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  The kudos widget bothers me, but Svbtle has a nice, clean design and I don't think there's anything wrong with copying it.
le_isms 14y ago
Just curious, why does this bother you?
- prezjordan 14y ago
  It's too close for comfort. I'm not saying any layout with Helvetica and a sidebar is automatically a Svbtle clone, but this is clearly stolen design, and that doesn't sit well with me.
  - le_isms 14y ago
    I can understand, however, did you know that Svbtle is 'inspired' from http://drawar.com/ http://drawar.com/ ?
    - 14y ago

ricardobeat 14y ago

Is that a "pirated" svbtle theme?

vnchr 14y ago
"WP-Svbtle" by Gravity on Mars: http://gravityonmars.com/2012/03/28/svbtle-based-on-wordpress/ http://gravityonmars.com/2012/03/28/svbtle-based-on-wordpres...
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  ugh. Why would you copy some closed community's look? It gives a terrible impression. Wait a sec while I post about copyright on my techcrunch clone blog.
  - jrockway 14y ago
    "Great artists steal," or something.
- DrJ 14y ago
  thanks for the link, I combined that with https://github.com/mhoofman/wordpress-heroku/ https://github.com/mhoofman/wordpress-heroku/ and now we can have one-click svbtle clones on heroku!

tholman 14y ago

You seem like a smart guy, and I really like your writing style... but why use the flakey Svbtle clone... you can do better than that :)

inuhj 14y ago
how is it flakey?
philip1209 14y ago
I'm open to suggestions :-)

jlarocco 14y ago

What is an "STL Hackathon"? Is it related to the C++ standard library STL? The STL file format? Has it been mentioned on HN before?

jrockway 14y ago
STL means St. Louis.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
tedivm 14y ago
It's the location, St. Louis.
mkopinsky 14y ago
If you read the article, it's pretty clear that it's referring to St. Louis. While I agree that it should have spelled it out in the title, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to click through and RTFA.
- heretoo 14y ago
  > RTFA It's not spelt out whether your intent here is to berate the guy or not, but I get the distinct impression that it is. Your response is rude and uncalled for. I read the article and it's not clear to me that STL is supposed to be equivalent to St Louis, because it isn't spelt out, and furthermore, I don't intend on looking it up in a dictionary of acronyms referring to foreign places that I may never visit, without first knowing that STL refers to a place.
- shocks 14y ago
  No. It's not "pretty clear". I read the article and I had no idea. But then, if you'd have RTFA then perhaps you would have known that too?
  - 14y ago

ChuckMcM 14y ago

Sad story. Back in the 90's I used to eat with friends at an Unamas! mexican restaurant which had a jar where you could drop your business card for a chance to win a free lunch. I asked them what they did with the cards, they didn't know. So I asked them how could I collect my free lunch if I won? They said "You will get a coupon which you can bring in for a lunch." I said "When does the winner get picked?" and they said "Every Friday, someone comes by to get the cards, they pick the winner over the weekend. So on Friday I went over at 5:30 and waited for the cards to be picked up. In comes a well dressed lady with another jar, same labelling, drops it off and picks up the one with cards. I intercept her on the way out, and ask what she is doing with the cards. As it turns out, she was the receptionist for a recruiter in the valley, they took all of the business cards, added these people to the list of people who they told their clients were 'looking for jobs' and then tried to move them from one job to another. I pointed out that Calfornia state law required all of that information to be available at the point where you entered the 'contest.' She said she would pass it on. On Wednesday when I went in the jar was gone.

signalsignal 14y ago
There is no free ride, but their are free trials.
rmc 14y ago
That would also be illegal in the European Union. The Data Protection Directive requires all uses of personal data be opt in (ie you cannot use someone's personal data for a purpose they didn't opt in to), that personal data be kept accurately (you cannot say that someone is looking for a job if they are not) and it also limits how companies can contact you (so the recruiter would not be legally able to contact you nd they found a job)
- rmc 14y ago
  I think it would also be illegal to share that personal data with other bodies (so the restaurant cannot give the business cards to someone else). It's all kinds of illegal.

kemayo 14y ago

Wait, we have a hacking scene in St Louis? Crazy.

vnchr 14y ago
Come hang out with us! This Friday is Code til Dawn: http://meetup.com/allnightlong http://meetup.com/allnightlong
- sillysaurus 14y ago
  What, really? That's awesome! How've you been liking it? It looks like there were 20 people last meetup.
  - philip1209 14y ago
    I love it! I'll be there.
    - count 14y ago
      How many of these folks are AFNIC-related? Is there a big non-DOD presence in STL for tech stuff?
      - philip1209 14y ago
        I honestly don't know of anybody who comes to code-until-dawn events that has military background. Ed Domain who started Techli was Air Force Reserves, but I don't know if hee was AFNIC.
dylanhassinger 14y ago
also a startup scene - http://meetup.startlouis.com http://meetup.startlouis.com

brackin 14y ago

The sad thing is I've seen hackathon's happen that have similar terms. One was a student one where 50% of whatever anyone made would be owned by the founder and he had the right to invest if he saw fit.

rmc 14y ago

I wonder if you could 'hack' this by working on a project that won, and to use and depend on GPL (or even AGPL) software. If they use it, you've made them open source their code.

andreasvc 14y ago
As long as they don't distribute the code, it's not a problem. Companies can maintain an in-house fork of GPL projects without having to release the source.
- rmc 14y ago
  If it's AGPL they have to release it the software is publically available. That's the point of the AGPL.
  - andreasvc 14y ago
    > As long as they don't distribute the code
    - rmc 14y ago
      No. If you have Affero GPL (AGPL) licenced code, you have to make the source code available if you make the programme "accessible to the public over the internet", even if you don't distribute the code. It's a new licence from the FSF, designed for web applications and the modern 'cloud'/'internet' world.
      - catshirt 14y ago
        please read between the lines here. "Companies can maintain an in-house fork..."