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I've been on both sides of this fence and I beg you to reconsider. First of all, going out with small children is an enterprise not to be underestimated: packin

by soco 1y ago

I've been on both sides of this fence and I beg you to reconsider. First of all, going out with small children is an enterprise not to be underestimated: packing bottles, the favorite toys, getting the kid(s) dressed... and then the same in reverse at the end of the day but with a way crankier kid. Then you anyway have to do all that for the plethora of mandatory or semi-mandatory outings with the other parents from the same group, and there's even less energy left to get another one. This is why parents prefer to invite you: because they appreciate your company, they want to keep the relationship going, but simply cannot fit much in the limited 24h of a busy day. Have you actually tried to visit them? Did you think that well-calculated chaos you found can be carried so easy some place else for two hours of visit? Yes, it can happen that a nanny is found or a grandma comes over, but neither of these are a given (financial and family statuses can vary). In the end it's not about moral or immoral, it's about mutual investment, and not pretending everything is the same with (small) children when it obviously is not.

dinfinity 1y ago
My point was that parents with children made their choice and should thus bear the responsibility for it. It's not some accident or unexpected thing like getting a disease or something. It is far more like having some super high-maintenance pet or hobby that sucks up gobs of time and complicates everything. Now I do make an effort and will continue to visit friends and family with kids, but it is a much shittier experience than visiting friends and family that don't have kids. The children dictate way too much of the experience and suck up all the attention in the room (although this is also an artifact of modern Western parenting). Again though: the parents chose that life. I had absolutely no say in it. So the situation is that I (have to) put more effort into our relationship and they put less into it. Due to the choices they made. So don't try to make me feel bad for not feeling sorry for them or being tempted to choose social outings that are free from temper tantrums, brightly colored plastic toys, short attention spans and uninteresting conversations about how 'they can already do multiplication'. We all make our choices.
- soco 1y ago
  Children or not, I don't believe I'd want such a friend around in any case. Which is also a choice, just based on something different than what you think.
  - dinfinity 1y ago
    > Children or not, I don't believe I'd want such a friend around in any case. "Such a friend"? What do you mean? > Which is also a choice, just based on something different than what you think. Don't be passive aggressive. Just say what you mean.

by soco 1y ago

dinfinity 1y ago

My point was that parents with children made their choice and should thus bear the responsibility for it. It's not some accident or unexpected thing like getting a disease or something. It is far more like having some super high-maintenance pet or hobby that sucks up gobs of time and complicates everything. Now I do make an effort and will continue to visit friends and family with kids, but it is a much shittier experience than visiting friends and family that don't have kids. The children dictate way too much of the experience and suck up all the attention in the room (although this is also an artifact of modern Western parenting). Again though: the parents chose that life. I had absolutely no say in it. So the situation is that I (have to) put more effort into our relationship and they put less into it. Due to the choices they made. So don't try to make me feel bad for not feeling sorry for them or being tempted to choose social outings that are free from temper tantrums, brightly colored plastic toys, short attention spans and uninteresting conversations about how 'they can already do multiplication'. We all make our choices.

soco 1y ago
Children or not, I don't believe I'd want such a friend around in any case. Which is also a choice, just based on something different than what you think.
- dinfinity 1y ago
  > Children or not, I don't believe I'd want such a friend around in any case. "Such a friend"? What do you mean? > Which is also a choice, just based on something different than what you think. Don't be passive aggressive. Just say what you mean.