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I strive to keep most things in at least the 3rd NF. Except stuff like addresses or names, those I intentionally don't push to be normalized, as they make up a

I strive to keep most things in at least the 3rd NF. Except stuff like addresses or names, those I intentionally don't push to be normalized, as they make up a single datum anyways, and normalizing creates more problems than it solves IME.

friendzis 1y ago
Addresses and names are nice, well-known examples for cross-domain data. It's not that attempts at normalizing these structural datums create problems per se, but rather there is no single true normalization, therefore wrong normalizations start causing problems.
- Akronymus 1y ago
  Yeah, normalizing inherently introduces constraints on the data. For example, normalizing to first and last name implies no middle names/having a first and last in the first place. Also, first and last names depend on the culture. Oh and people can have more than 1 name (as in distinct names, rather than multi part names. Some cultures use different names with different social circles). Easier to just let them put their preferred name into a freeform text field.
  - HelloNurse 1y ago
    Very importantly, the value can be adapted to its purpose. A person's name can be very different if it is to be used for credits in a publication, for a formal wedding invitation and guest list or for shipping to a specific address.
sgarland 1y ago
> Except stuff like addresses or names, those I intentionally don't push to be normalized IMO, it depends. While the idea of normalizing names is amusing, I probably wouldn't ever push for that either. For addresses, though, I would absolutely normalize everything beyond the street address. If nothing else, it enables you to quite cheaply (from a storage / memory perspective) add a lot of analytics on users that might be useful, but would be expensive to store with every record - things like city population, postal code median income, etc. And in cases where you need to have your own company's address displayed per-user (disclosures for financial products, for example), it's absolutely a good idea. A full address, especially a business one that might have a Suite, Floor, etc. can easily be 60-80 chars, which over hundreds of millions of rows, adds up.
- Akronymus 1y ago
  > I would absolutely normalize everything beyond the street address. If nothing else, I'd personally rather store those datums in additional fields/tables, extracted from the address.

friendzis 1y ago

Addresses and names are nice, well-known examples for cross-domain data. It's not that attempts at normalizing these structural datums create problems per se, but rather there is no single true normalization, therefore wrong normalizations start causing problems.

Akronymus 1y ago
Yeah, normalizing inherently introduces constraints on the data. For example, normalizing to first and last name implies no middle names/having a first and last in the first place. Also, first and last names depend on the culture. Oh and people can have more than 1 name (as in distinct names, rather than multi part names. Some cultures use different names with different social circles). Easier to just let them put their preferred name into a freeform text field.
- HelloNurse 1y ago
  Very importantly, the value can be adapted to its purpose. A person's name can be very different if it is to be used for credits in a publication, for a formal wedding invitation and guest list or for shipping to a specific address.

sgarland 1y ago

> Except stuff like addresses or names, those I intentionally don't push to be normalized IMO, it depends. While the idea of normalizing names is amusing, I probably wouldn't ever push for that either. For addresses, though, I would absolutely normalize everything beyond the street address. If nothing else, it enables you to quite cheaply (from a storage / memory perspective) add a lot of analytics on users that might be useful, but would be expensive to store with every record - things like city population, postal code median income, etc. And in cases where you need to have your own company's address displayed per-user (disclosures for financial products, for example), it's absolutely a good idea. A full address, especially a business one that might have a Suite, Floor, etc. can easily be 60-80 chars, which over hundreds of millions of rows, adds up.

Akronymus 1y ago
> I would absolutely normalize everything beyond the street address. If nothing else, I'd personally rather store those datums in additional fields/tables, extracted from the address.