5 ms·

The pressure treated wood used for railway lines is already damned near impossible to get rid of.

by rubzah 1y ago

jagged-chisel 1y ago
My understanding is that wood isn’t only pressure treated, but also soaked in chemicals that bugs and decomposers don’t like to eat.
- coolcase 1y ago
  Your fence probably has chemicals like that too.
  - permo-w 1y ago
    then the carbon trapped in that wood is staying there for much longer than it would otherwise
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- archi42 1y ago
  That's true, at least around here [Germany]. Plus the nasty stuff might leak into the environment over the decades, and it's a pain to dispose of. IIUC, they replace them with plastics since the plastic is seemingly more ecologically friendly and easier to recycle. Mind concrete sleepers are what's used these days. You'll find wood only in shunting or cargo yards. (Or museums. Or the US - see linked commen by LeonM). Source: I randomly met someone involved with that project. A proper train enthusiast can probably elaborate here, but I think I remember the core idea correctly. Also this obviously doesn't necessarily hold globally, though I can imagine many track operators face similar challenges. Edit: While I wrote the above, LeonM wrote a nice reply on a sibling comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44028161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44028161
- wahern 1y ago
  I think pressure treated implies chemical impregnation--the pressure is used to diffuse the preservative through the wood.
LeonM 1y ago
Depends a bit on the country and era of the sleepers ('ties' in US), but traditional wooden sleepers are treated with creosote [0], which is tar/oil impregnation. I'm no expert on this subject by any means, but I happen to volunteer at a museum where we have steam trains running. We build our tracks to look traditional, so we use wooden sleepers and no ballast. Most of our sleepers are donated from the commercial railroad companies, typically they are old stock but we also receive used ones occasionally. In my part of the world wooden sleepers aren't common anymore, so it's getting harder to find usable ones. This is a concern for us, as apaearantly there aren't any suppliers left in our part of the world for new ones. At our museum they typically last for about 15 years, mainly because we place our sleepers directly on the soil (no balast). The tar/oils will eventually dry out and the wood will just rot/decompose naturally. Wooden sleepers are considered chemical waste in my part of the world, though I do believe we are allowed to let them decompose fully as biomatter, which goes quite quick if in contact with moist soil. Though we typically dispose our used sleepers at a specialized waste facility, I'm not sure how they process it there. Oh, and in case you are wondering: no, they don't burn, so we can't use them as firewoord for our steam engines ;-) Appearantly in the USA, at least as of 2008, around 90% of all track was still using wood [1]. I didn't expect that. For most of the world we have used concrete sleepers for a long time already. Plastic sleepers are also common nowadays, which are typically made from recycled materials. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie
- tristor 1y ago
  > Appearantly in the USA, at least as of 2008, around 90% of all track was still using wood [1]. I didn't expect that. For most of the world we have used concrete sleepers for a long time already. Plastic sleepers are also common nowadays, which are typically made from recycled materials. This is for a few reasons, but the two primary ones are that wood is very cheap and plentiful in the US compared to most of the rest of the world, and we haven't banned creosote in the US like most of the rest of the world, so creosote treated wood is still the most common type of railroad tie.
potato3732842 1y ago
You'd think that there'd be a robust secondary market for treated rot resistant timber that's "too rotten for trains, but perfect for landscaping". Sure, there's chemicals in it but if it's safe enough to be embedded in untold miles of rail bed then surely it's safe enough for comparable landscaping use. Like everything else there's probably some 2nd/3rd order consequence of regulatory perversion that prevents it. Like because of the circumstances it wrongly gets classified as hazmat or something.
- rjmunro 1y ago
  In the UK you can buy used railway sleepers for landscaping, as well as new ones: https://www.uksleepers.co.uk/ https://www.uksleepers.co.uk/
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    I know you "can" buy them but I've never seen them for sale in my state or surrounding ones save the occasional classified posting. Perhaps you can buy them in parts of the country with different regulatory priorities. Same with telephone poles.
- cosmicgadget 1y ago
  My big orange and blue hardware stores have them and I have used them for landscaping.
- mml 1y ago
  creosote railroad ties are commonly found in landscaping around here. unfortunately, they are hazardous waste, thusly getting rid of them is a bit of a hassle.

The pressure treated wood used for railway lines is already damned near impossible to get rid of.

by rubzah 1y ago

The pressure treated wood used for railway lines is already damned near impossible to get rid of.

My understanding is that wood isn’t only pressure treated, but also soaked in chemicals that bugs and decomposers don’t like to eat.

coolcase 1y ago
Your fence probably has chemicals like that too.
- permo-w 1y ago
  then the carbon trapped in that wood is staying there for much longer than it would otherwise
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
archi42 1y ago
That's true, at least around here [Germany]. Plus the nasty stuff might leak into the environment over the decades, and it's a pain to dispose of. IIUC, they replace them with plastics since the plastic is seemingly more ecologically friendly and easier to recycle. Mind concrete sleepers are what's used these days. You'll find wood only in shunting or cargo yards. (Or museums. Or the US - see linked commen by LeonM). Source: I randomly met someone involved with that project. A proper train enthusiast can probably elaborate here, but I think I remember the core idea correctly. Also this obviously doesn't necessarily hold globally, though I can imagine many track operators face similar challenges. Edit: While I wrote the above, LeonM wrote a nice reply on a sibling comment - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44028161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44028161
wahern 1y ago
I think pressure treated implies chemical impregnation--the pressure is used to diffuse the preservative through the wood.

LeonM 1y ago

Depends a bit on the country and era of the sleepers ('ties' in US), but traditional wooden sleepers are treated with creosote [0], which is tar/oil impregnation. I'm no expert on this subject by any means, but I happen to volunteer at a museum where we have steam trains running. We build our tracks to look traditional, so we use wooden sleepers and no ballast. Most of our sleepers are donated from the commercial railroad companies, typically they are old stock but we also receive used ones occasionally. In my part of the world wooden sleepers aren't common anymore, so it's getting harder to find usable ones. This is a concern for us, as apaearantly there aren't any suppliers left in our part of the world for new ones. At our museum they typically last for about 15 years, mainly because we place our sleepers directly on the soil (no balast). The tar/oils will eventually dry out and the wood will just rot/decompose naturally. Wooden sleepers are considered chemical waste in my part of the world, though I do believe we are allowed to let them decompose fully as biomatter, which goes quite quick if in contact with moist soil. Though we typically dispose our used sleepers at a specialized waste facility, I'm not sure how they process it there. Oh, and in case you are wondering: no, they don't burn, so we can't use them as firewoord for our steam engines ;-) Appearantly in the USA, at least as of 2008, around 90% of all track was still using wood [1]. I didn't expect that. For most of the world we have used concrete sleepers for a long time already. Plastic sleepers are also common nowadays, which are typically made from recycled materials. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creosote [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie

tristor 1y ago
> Appearantly in the USA, at least as of 2008, around 90% of all track was still using wood [1]. I didn't expect that. For most of the world we have used concrete sleepers for a long time already. Plastic sleepers are also common nowadays, which are typically made from recycled materials. This is for a few reasons, but the two primary ones are that wood is very cheap and plentiful in the US compared to most of the rest of the world, and we haven't banned creosote in the US like most of the rest of the world, so creosote treated wood is still the most common type of railroad tie.

potato3732842 1y ago

You'd think that there'd be a robust secondary market for treated rot resistant timber that's "too rotten for trains, but perfect for landscaping". Sure, there's chemicals in it but if it's safe enough to be embedded in untold miles of rail bed then surely it's safe enough for comparable landscaping use. Like everything else there's probably some 2nd/3rd order consequence of regulatory perversion that prevents it. Like because of the circumstances it wrongly gets classified as hazmat or something.

rjmunro 1y ago
In the UK you can buy used railway sleepers for landscaping, as well as new ones: https://www.uksleepers.co.uk/ https://www.uksleepers.co.uk/
- potato3732842 1y ago
  I know you "can" buy them but I've never seen them for sale in my state or surrounding ones save the occasional classified posting. Perhaps you can buy them in parts of the country with different regulatory priorities. Same with telephone poles.
cosmicgadget 1y ago
My big orange and blue hardware stores have them and I have used them for landscaping.
mml 1y ago
creosote railroad ties are commonly found in landscaping around here. unfortunately, they are hazardous waste, thusly getting rid of them is a bit of a hassle.