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When the Dutch government cut funding for universities they found a new cash cow: foreigners! But for Chinese students the Netherlands is exotic nobody wants to

by Yeul 1y ago

When the Dutch government cut funding for universities they found a new cash cow: foreigners! But for Chinese students the Netherlands is exotic nobody wants to go to Missouri I guess. (Ironically the government is now complaining that there are too many foreigners and that everyone is speaking English).

burnt-resistor 1y ago
Xenophobia is an automatic signal of ignorance/stupidity/insecurity. I worked with a Chinese-American naturalized citizen who moved from PGP/Symantec to work at Stanford just long enough to get his kid the tuition discount (10 years still?). That's real love, dedication, and sacrifice for one's kids.
lifestyleguru 1y ago
At least these students physically are in Netherlands? Over here there are many "private universities/academias" with students from outside of EU but they are permanently on "scholarship in Africa" or "yoga classes in India". It's basically a foot in the door for the EU stay permit.
alephnerd 1y ago
> But for Chinese students the Netherlands is exotic nobody wants to go to Missouri I guess. They used to go to these schools. There just aren't that many Chinese anymore either. A decade ago, UIUC (mentioned in the article) was derisively called the "University of Indians and Chinese". Now, UIUC's Chinese admissions collapsed [0] - a trend that happened in every university. The same thing will happen with Indian students within a decade, because Green Card waiting periods act as a quasi-thousands talents program, and you can demand an EU level tech salary in India with US (especially SV, Seattle, or NYC) work experience. Already, a couple of my peers who worked at top ML labs in the Bay have begun transferring to the Indian branches of American R&D labs and/or taking faculty positions at top universites, when barely 15 years ago you would be hard pressed to find an American educated CS professor from a school like MIT, UIUC, or UW in India. [0] - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/11/29/university-illinois-insures-itself-against-possible-drop-chinese-enrollments https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/11/29/university-il...
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  > UIUC's Chinese admissions collapsed [0] - a trend that happened in every university. Is this a new trend that started in COVID? Because I was very plugged into the Chinese-studying-in-the-US trend from the China side, and I can tell you that it was still booming as of 2017.
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    > as of 2017 That's when the change began. China began limiting foreign withdrawals to $50,000 a year [0], which made it hard for Chinese international students at the undergrad level to join. At the same time, the US began cracking down on Chinese nationals at American programs due to economic espionage attempts and monitoring Chinese nationals at American universities [1] On top of that, the material condition did become better for Chinese scholars in high priority fields, so you did see a significant number of Chinese nationals who did research graduate programs return to China to either get tenure track or start a business in that space. Finally, during Zero COVID (2020-2023), China placed extremely harsh exit and entry controls that basically cut Mainland China off from much of the world, and the subsequent economic slowdown made the cost proposition of studying in the US prohibitive if it wasn't a top tier program. At this point, it has become a headache for Chinese students to go abroad, but nowadays, those that do try are doing so with the intention of staying abroad. [0] - https://www.safe.gov.cn/en/2017/1230/1397.html https://www.safe.gov.cn/en/2017/1230/1397.html [1] - https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/18/the-chinese-communist-party-is-setting-up-cells-at-universities-across-america-china-students-beijing-surveillance/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/18/the-chinese-communist-p...

by Yeul 1y ago

burnt-resistor 1y ago

Xenophobia is an automatic signal of ignorance/stupidity/insecurity. I worked with a Chinese-American naturalized citizen who moved from PGP/Symantec to work at Stanford just long enough to get his kid the tuition discount (10 years still?). That's real love, dedication, and sacrifice for one's kids.

lifestyleguru 1y ago

At least these students physically are in Netherlands? Over here there are many "private universities/academias" with students from outside of EU but they are permanently on "scholarship in Africa" or "yoga classes in India". It's basically a foot in the door for the EU stay permit.

alephnerd 1y ago

> But for Chinese students the Netherlands is exotic nobody wants to go to Missouri I guess. They used to go to these schools. There just aren't that many Chinese anymore either. A decade ago, UIUC (mentioned in the article) was derisively called the "University of Indians and Chinese". Now, UIUC's Chinese admissions collapsed [0] - a trend that happened in every university. The same thing will happen with Indian students within a decade, because Green Card waiting periods act as a quasi-thousands talents program, and you can demand an EU level tech salary in India with US (especially SV, Seattle, or NYC) work experience. Already, a couple of my peers who worked at top ML labs in the Bay have begun transferring to the Indian branches of American R&D labs and/or taking faculty positions at top universites, when barely 15 years ago you would be hard pressed to find an American educated CS professor from a school like MIT, UIUC, or UW in India. [0] - https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/11/29/university-illinois-insures-itself-against-possible-drop-chinese-enrollments https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2018/11/29/university-il...

insane_dreamer 1y ago
> UIUC's Chinese admissions collapsed [0] - a trend that happened in every university. Is this a new trend that started in COVID? Because I was very plugged into the Chinese-studying-in-the-US trend from the China side, and I can tell you that it was still booming as of 2017.
- alephnerd 1y ago
  > as of 2017 That's when the change began. China began limiting foreign withdrawals to $50,000 a year [0], which made it hard for Chinese international students at the undergrad level to join. At the same time, the US began cracking down on Chinese nationals at American programs due to economic espionage attempts and monitoring Chinese nationals at American universities [1] On top of that, the material condition did become better for Chinese scholars in high priority fields, so you did see a significant number of Chinese nationals who did research graduate programs return to China to either get tenure track or start a business in that space. Finally, during Zero COVID (2020-2023), China placed extremely harsh exit and entry controls that basically cut Mainland China off from much of the world, and the subsequent economic slowdown made the cost proposition of studying in the US prohibitive if it wasn't a top tier program. At this point, it has become a headache for Chinese students to go abroad, but nowadays, those that do try are doing so with the intention of staying abroad. [0] - https://www.safe.gov.cn/en/2017/1230/1397.html https://www.safe.gov.cn/en/2017/1230/1397.html [1] - https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/18/the-chinese-communist-party-is-setting-up-cells-at-universities-across-america-china-students-beijing-surveillance/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/04/18/the-chinese-communist-p...