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> There’s also a facet of strict benthamite utilitarianism that falls into the trap of accepting reified societal norms as being objective reality - for instan

> There’s also a facet of strict benthamite utilitarianism that falls into the trap of accepting reified societal norms as being objective reality - for instance, the core idea that pain and suffering are bad. Man, people DO vax poetic online, but when you introduce them to the blowtorch, some tweezers and a steel pipe, they don't need much convincing that pain and suffering is ... in fact ... objectively bad. They convert to recognizing the badness of pain and suffering..... very, very quickly. > I would hold that they are the whetstones that sharpen the soul You really have no idea what you're talking about, are you? How can anyone type this naive drivel?

ip26 1y ago
There’s a difference between being tortured in the “to death” sense, and milder forms of suffering. Hunger pangs, mild sleep deprivation, pushing through exhaustion, mild hypothermia, etc are a form of suffering. But they are also something people are routinely willing to subject themselves to during sport. I would like anesthesia for surgery, but I still participate in endurance sports…
- autarch 1y ago
  I think endurance sports (and many other sports, like rock climbing, which I enjoy), are a mix of type 1 and type 2 fun (https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale). There may be some suffering while you do it, but the overall experience is positive when you look back at it. This is quite different from surgery without anesthesia, which would definitely not be fun in the end, at least for most people.
  - madaxe_again 1y ago
    It wouldn’t be fun, no, but it would sure as hell make you appreciate not undergoing surgery without anaesthesia. From a personal perspective, I spent years suffering from a mystery illness (ah, the joys of tropical diseases), and it made me appreciate the times when I wasn’t having an acute episode immensely, which otherwise would have been “ordinary”. My wife would be like “there are leaves all over the driveway!” and I would be like “yes, aren’t they beautiful?”.
madaxe_again 1y ago
[flagged]
- actualwitch 1y ago
  It is this kind of thinking that leads to what is depicted in Whiplash.

ip26 1y ago

There’s a difference between being tortured in the “to death” sense, and milder forms of suffering. Hunger pangs, mild sleep deprivation, pushing through exhaustion, mild hypothermia, etc are a form of suffering. But they are also something people are routinely willing to subject themselves to during sport. I would like anesthesia for surgery, but I still participate in endurance sports…

autarch 1y ago
I think endurance sports (and many other sports, like rock climbing, which I enjoy), are a mix of type 1 and type 2 fun (https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale https://www.rei.com/blog/climb/fun-scale). There may be some suffering while you do it, but the overall experience is positive when you look back at it. This is quite different from surgery without anesthesia, which would definitely not be fun in the end, at least for most people.
- madaxe_again 1y ago
  It wouldn’t be fun, no, but it would sure as hell make you appreciate not undergoing surgery without anaesthesia. From a personal perspective, I spent years suffering from a mystery illness (ah, the joys of tropical diseases), and it made me appreciate the times when I wasn’t having an acute episode immensely, which otherwise would have been “ordinary”. My wife would be like “there are leaves all over the driveway!” and I would be like “yes, aren’t they beautiful?”.

madaxe_again 1y ago

[flagged]

actualwitch 1y ago
It is this kind of thinking that leads to what is depicted in Whiplash.