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Like most people I want to live a long time. But more than life span I am interested in health span. I want to feel good and be autonomous as long as possible.

Like most people I want to live a long time. But more than life span I am interested in health span. I want to feel good and be autonomous as long as possible. Fitness, especially good muscle mass, is an important part of that.

drewcoo 1y ago
I'll just add that I don't want more of the last years of my life. I'd like more of the middle.
- pmarreck 1y ago
  Exactly. And if you consider that every hour you spend purely exercising (gym, treadmill, etc.) in the middle does NOT pay for an extra hour of life on the tail end, it doesn’t seem like the best trade. (I will say that a morning workout still supercharges your day!)
  - socalgal2 1y ago
    > (I will say that a morning workout still supercharges your day!) And you'd be wrong. It does not supercharge my day. Maybe it superchargers your day. Just finished my morning workout and now I feel like I've been drugged and need a nap. I do not feel "supercharged"
    - pmarreck 1y ago
      Maybe it depends on what you've done and for how long?
      - socalgal2 1y ago
        Or maybe different people's bodies react differently? I've got many decades of life experience. Not once in my life have I ever felt energized from working out.
        smolder 1y ago
        Maybe. I suspect it has more to do with baseline activity level and type of workout, but I could be wrong. I only have 1 body. IME, If I do nothing all day, I'll feel sluggish all day. If I take a 30 minute walk or do some squats, pullups or overhead presses, it will get my heart rate up and I'll feel more awake afterwards. I generally don't push myself to the point of exhaustion with exercise.
        pmarreck 1y ago
        I will defer to your many decades of life experience. I just noticed that in my 53 year existence, only by the past 10 years, a morning workout (which I didn't do prior to that) was figuratively and literally eye-opening, not just physically but mentally. Specifically, it was the Orangetheory workout. And I regretted not discovering it sooner, and mainly I blame people who didn't emphasize not just the physical but the mental boost
generalenvelope 1y ago
Dr. Feigenbaum from Barbell Medicine says "We want to add years to your life, and life to your years" :)
melling 1y ago
Yes, everyone is interested in healthspan
Aurornis 1y ago
The funny thing about the “healthspan” trend is that it’s simply describing what everyone meant when they said they wanted to live a long time. Nobody wanted to live a long time but be unhealthy in their older years. It wasn’t until health and fitness podcasters started holding up the “healthspan” term as something novel that we had to hear about the supposed difference. It’s also unfortunate that the “healthspan” influencers frequently get into health trends that have the opposite effect. The main example I can think of is Dr. Peter Attia, who started out praising ketogenic diets (recently shown to have very negative effects on cardiovascular health, not surprisingly) and later Rapamycin (briefly praised by lifespan influencers until they all decided it was hurting more than helping). I think one of the best things people can do for long-term health is limit their consumption of health and fitness influencers who are pressured to constantly invent and push new things to keep themselves relevant.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- iamthemonster 1y ago
  Which study are you referring to for keto having a negative impact on cardiovascular health? I've unfortunately found studies and metastudies reaching all sorts of conflicting conclusions on keto. The top metastudies on a simple google search both conclude positive effects on CVD.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    Ketogenic diet research is fascinating in itself for how many manipulated or misleading studies get published. The most recent example is the KETO-CTA paper, which was released in April to loud claims that high LDL in a keto diet was not really bad. It got picked up by various news outlets as vindicating ketogenic diets. The authors posted long Twitter threads full of meme animated gifs celebrating their victory over keto skeptics. Yet when people started looming into the study they noticed that the study failed to report the data from the pre-registered trial endpoint. This is highly unusual because if you establish an entire clinical trial, you are expected to publish the primary results you pre-registered. After a lot of prodding, people finally got the authors to release the percent change in non-calcified plaque volume (NCPV) values that they pre-registered for and they were extremely high. Even higher than seen in certain serious medical conditions. It became clear that they chose to hide the values because they were so incredibly bad. > The top metastudies on a simple google search both conclude positive effects on CVD. There are a lot of die-hard keto defenders who produce papers, blogs, and podcasts claiming it’s either neutral or good for CVD. You have to look past the SEO optimized content and go to actual CVD experts who do not have their internet presence tied to promoting keto diets.
amrocha 1y ago
I think personally I want to be bedridden, sick, and miserable for as long as possible but I respect your point of view too!
mlhpdx 1y ago
> especially good muscle mass I thought semi-starvation was the one and only strongly evidenced way too extend lifespan? Which obviously doesn’t require, and in fact destroys, muscle mass.

drewcoo 1y ago

I'll just add that I don't want more of the last years of my life. I'd like more of the middle.

pmarreck 1y ago
Exactly. And if you consider that every hour you spend purely exercising (gym, treadmill, etc.) in the middle does NOT pay for an extra hour of life on the tail end, it doesn’t seem like the best trade. (I will say that a morning workout still supercharges your day!)
- socalgal2 1y ago
  > (I will say that a morning workout still supercharges your day!) And you'd be wrong. It does not supercharge my day. Maybe it superchargers your day. Just finished my morning workout and now I feel like I've been drugged and need a nap. I do not feel "supercharged"
  - pmarreck 1y ago
    Maybe it depends on what you've done and for how long?
    - socalgal2 1y ago
      Or maybe different people's bodies react differently? I've got many decades of life experience. Not once in my life have I ever felt energized from working out.
      - smolder 1y ago
        Maybe. I suspect it has more to do with baseline activity level and type of workout, but I could be wrong. I only have 1 body. IME, If I do nothing all day, I'll feel sluggish all day. If I take a 30 minute walk or do some squats, pullups or overhead presses, it will get my heart rate up and I'll feel more awake afterwards. I generally don't push myself to the point of exhaustion with exercise.
      - pmarreck 1y ago
        I will defer to your many decades of life experience. I just noticed that in my 53 year existence, only by the past 10 years, a morning workout (which I didn't do prior to that) was figuratively and literally eye-opening, not just physically but mentally. Specifically, it was the Orangetheory workout. And I regretted not discovering it sooner, and mainly I blame people who didn't emphasize not just the physical but the mental boost

generalenvelope 1y ago

Dr. Feigenbaum from Barbell Medicine says "We want to add years to your life, and life to your years" :)

melling 1y ago

Yes, everyone is interested in healthspan

Aurornis 1y ago

The funny thing about the “healthspan” trend is that it’s simply describing what everyone meant when they said they wanted to live a long time. Nobody wanted to live a long time but be unhealthy in their older years. It wasn’t until health and fitness podcasters started holding up the “healthspan” term as something novel that we had to hear about the supposed difference. It’s also unfortunate that the “healthspan” influencers frequently get into health trends that have the opposite effect. The main example I can think of is Dr. Peter Attia, who started out praising ketogenic diets (recently shown to have very negative effects on cardiovascular health, not surprisingly) and later Rapamycin (briefly praised by lifespan influencers until they all decided it was hurting more than helping). I think one of the best things people can do for long-term health is limit their consumption of health and fitness influencers who are pressured to constantly invent and push new things to keep themselves relevant.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
iamthemonster 1y ago
Which study are you referring to for keto having a negative impact on cardiovascular health? I've unfortunately found studies and metastudies reaching all sorts of conflicting conclusions on keto. The top metastudies on a simple google search both conclude positive effects on CVD.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  Ketogenic diet research is fascinating in itself for how many manipulated or misleading studies get published. The most recent example is the KETO-CTA paper, which was released in April to loud claims that high LDL in a keto diet was not really bad. It got picked up by various news outlets as vindicating ketogenic diets. The authors posted long Twitter threads full of meme animated gifs celebrating their victory over keto skeptics. Yet when people started looming into the study they noticed that the study failed to report the data from the pre-registered trial endpoint. This is highly unusual because if you establish an entire clinical trial, you are expected to publish the primary results you pre-registered. After a lot of prodding, people finally got the authors to release the percent change in non-calcified plaque volume (NCPV) values that they pre-registered for and they were extremely high. Even higher than seen in certain serious medical conditions. It became clear that they chose to hide the values because they were so incredibly bad. > The top metastudies on a simple google search both conclude positive effects on CVD. There are a lot of die-hard keto defenders who produce papers, blogs, and podcasts claiming it’s either neutral or good for CVD. You have to look past the SEO optimized content and go to actual CVD experts who do not have their internet presence tied to promoting keto diets.

amrocha 1y ago

I think personally I want to be bedridden, sick, and miserable for as long as possible but I respect your point of view too!

mlhpdx 1y ago

> especially good muscle mass I thought semi-starvation was the one and only strongly evidenced way too extend lifespan? Which obviously doesn’t require, and in fact destroys, muscle mass.