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> which help no one since they are zero sum Signalling Status plays a big role in group formation/group maintenance/social cohesion etc. The larger groups gro

by lwo32k 1y ago

> which help no one since they are zero sum Signalling Status plays a big role in group formation/group maintenance/social cohesion etc. The larger groups grow, the more complex the group dynamics get, keeping groups of people together and preventing them from disintegrating is one of the most complex problem we face, given all the differences in culture, religion, language, class, personalities, ambitions, values, needs, intelligence, skill, education level, interests etc etc A short cut frequently used (cause its easy) is using Leisure and Luxury (see Theory of the Leisure Class). "So you like what I wear, where I stay, what I eat, who my friends are, what toys I have and want to be like me or hang out with me then do what I say". This works pretty well. In fact Veblen's prediction in Theory of the Leisure Class was that since Tech has a tendency to eliminate waste, tech would eventually eliminate the need for a Leisure/Status signalling Class that keeps large groups from unraveling. But social cohesion of large groups is such a complex problem, society even today requires all kinds of Status Signalling to keep the groups together. If you find ways to keep groups together without status signalling you are onto something special.

47282847 1y ago
In my experience roaming many different groups, the ones who do not signal status typically are the most powerful/influental. Their membership is safe; they don’t need to signal status, or rather, signaling it draws too much attention (annoyances by those seeking to gain status by affiliation). I remember reading a study about this some years back to find my own findings confirmed. The people I know with a net worth over 10m do not display it. Why would they want to. It only has downsides and no upside. Same applies to other forms of status/rank/belonging. (Not contradicting your points, merely adding to them.) If you want to experiment with that, try to NOT match other people’s style AND radiate a deep sense of security/belonging/entitlement. Do not hide your (other) insecurities; those with status don’t have to hide their authenticity. This may sound like a contradiction at first, but you can develop an universal sense of belonging that remains authentic. You will be surprised which people will suddenly find you to talk with you, once you stop seeking their attention.
- mpweiher 1y ago
  > the ones who do not signal status > AND radiate a deep sense of security/belonging/entitlement. That's also signaling status. "Don’t be so humble — you’re not that great" -- Golda Meir. And of course: "You cannot not communicate" -- Paul Watzlawick
HardCodedBias 1y ago
Not to be trite, but signaling status is only complicated due to animals/humans making it complex. These are games and they are zero sum games. We should strive to remove ourselves from these games as much as possible and not to lean into them as LVMH would like. Rejecting such superficial signaling only enhances one's life, IMO.
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  I think status signaling is fascinating. Veblen goods are the most simplistic and superficial form of intentional status signaling and yes, the world would be much better off without them. Other kinds of status signaling are more interesting and more subtle. If I talk about my weekend softball team, I'm not doing it to impress anybody, but it unavoidably does convey some things about my status. It tells you I almost certainly have a car, I have leisure time, people like me enough to at least tolerate me on their team, that I have a few hundred dollars to spend on gear/fees, and that I have some basic level of physical coordination/strength/ability. It also strongly hints that I grew up middle class or higher because middle class+ kids are the most likely to have learned the game as kids and continued with it as adults.
- lotsofpulp 1y ago
  There are only 24 hours in a day. Signaling (or looking for others' signaling) is inevitable if one wants to curate their interactions. There are uncountable types of signaling, other than the LVMH style. Not sure how any individual or society could function otherwise, due to the limits physics places upon us.

by lwo32k 1y ago

47282847 1y ago

In my experience roaming many different groups, the ones who do not signal status typically are the most powerful/influental. Their membership is safe; they don’t need to signal status, or rather, signaling it draws too much attention (annoyances by those seeking to gain status by affiliation). I remember reading a study about this some years back to find my own findings confirmed. The people I know with a net worth over 10m do not display it. Why would they want to. It only has downsides and no upside. Same applies to other forms of status/rank/belonging. (Not contradicting your points, merely adding to them.) If you want to experiment with that, try to NOT match other people’s style AND radiate a deep sense of security/belonging/entitlement. Do not hide your (other) insecurities; those with status don’t have to hide their authenticity. This may sound like a contradiction at first, but you can develop an universal sense of belonging that remains authentic. You will be surprised which people will suddenly find you to talk with you, once you stop seeking their attention.

mpweiher 1y ago
> the ones who do not signal status > AND radiate a deep sense of security/belonging/entitlement. That's also signaling status. "Don’t be so humble — you’re not that great" -- Golda Meir. And of course: "You cannot not communicate" -- Paul Watzlawick

HardCodedBias 1y ago

Not to be trite, but signaling status is only complicated due to animals/humans making it complex. These are games and they are zero sum games. We should strive to remove ourselves from these games as much as possible and not to lean into them as LVMH would like. Rejecting such superficial signaling only enhances one's life, IMO.

JohnBooty 1y ago
I think status signaling is fascinating. Veblen goods are the most simplistic and superficial form of intentional status signaling and yes, the world would be much better off without them. Other kinds of status signaling are more interesting and more subtle. If I talk about my weekend softball team, I'm not doing it to impress anybody, but it unavoidably does convey some things about my status. It tells you I almost certainly have a car, I have leisure time, people like me enough to at least tolerate me on their team, that I have a few hundred dollars to spend on gear/fees, and that I have some basic level of physical coordination/strength/ability. It also strongly hints that I grew up middle class or higher because middle class+ kids are the most likely to have learned the game as kids and continued with it as adults.
lotsofpulp 1y ago
There are only 24 hours in a day. Signaling (or looking for others' signaling) is inevitable if one wants to curate their interactions. There are uncountable types of signaling, other than the LVMH style. Not sure how any individual or society could function otherwise, due to the limits physics places upon us.