4 ms·

> A very rich person has a full-time housekeeper. So does any middle class family living in a developing country with high economic inequality.

drewcoo 1y ago
And it would be heartless not to. Those housekeepers need jobs and incomes.
- mauvehaus 1y ago
  Perhaps not exactly comparable, but I went to a talk at wlog REI from some relatively ordinary person who climbed some famous, but accessible peak (Kilimanjaro?). I asked about the practice of hiring local porters, and got basically this answer. The local economy pretty much depends on the influx of foreign money from the people climbing. A fit person would be physically capable of carrying their full load, but it simply isn't done because of the economic disparity between the foreign climbers and the local porters. I don't know if that was enforced by law or custom, but the presenter was quite clear that it's not really possible to climb without local porters.
  - normie3000 1y ago
    On Kilimanjaro you must employ a guide, a cook for the guide, and a porter to carry the gear of the cook and the guide. You are welcome to carry your own gear but at this point you've already got a support team of 3 people and are paying $1500+. An extra porter is probably around $100.
- tuatoru 1y ago
  I don't know why you are getting downvoted. Over the years I have heard several anecdotes from "expat" wives in various places (Kenya, Philippines, New Guinea) of being taken aside by a local headman soon after arrival and being told that they will hire a cook and a housekeeper and a laundrymaid. On the mediocrity principle, I think this is how things worked in general. Necessary to the local economy.
- JohnBooty 1y ago
  Yeah I think this is something that people in countries like the US don't instinctively understand, or at least I didn't. My Filipino friend explained to me that back home, if you have more than a certain amount of money, it's seen as incredibly selfish not to employ people as housekeepers, etc. I'd imagine that's true in a lot of places with income disparity and/or high unemployment numbers. It made a lot of sense to me.
  - bombcar 1y ago
    We have that in the USA for some things - depending on where you live. Some places if you’re the only house on the block who mows their own lawn, you’ll be considered stingy or weird.
  - magicalhippo 1y ago
    My mom visited a professor in an African country a few years back, as part of a project. She told me the professor had a guy employed to open and close the gates for when he drove to work and came home in the evening. That's all the guy did. Full time job. Sounded so preposterous at first, but after thinking a wee bit I came to a similar conclusion that the alternatives might be a lot worse. It was steady income, albeit not a lot.
    - lazyasciiart 1y ago
      I assume he also stayed actively present at the gates during the day and/or night and functioned as some kind of watchman?
    - ricardobayes 1y ago
      Sounds like any gated community with a security guard post at the entrance.
  - 47282847 1y ago
    I understand where this is coming from but that argument simply doesn’t make sense. There are many ways to give back to society; providing low-status jobs is only one of them. And a poor one, because it locks people in that status and heteronomy. Within 10 minutes, anyone can come up with some ideas that would contribute to other people’s development and growth in a more sustainable fashion. It serves other purposes. That narrative is a convenient collective lie, full stop.
- cess11 1y ago
  Are all jobs and incomes alike?
- impossiblefork 1y ago
  It doesn't heartless. You can, instead of paying for a housekeeper pay for machines etc. made in the country in question, thus creating technical jobs there that might develop people more than housekeeping does.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    The machines are more expensive than the housekeeper and the housekeeper doesn't have the education to make them. In the US (and Europe...) labor is expensive so it make sense to have technical people design machines.
- ta1243 1y ago
  Personally I'd hate the lack of privacy
rasz 1y ago
Or an UN judge living in UK https://www.reuters.com/world/ugandan-un-judge-jailed-britain-over-six-years-forced-labour-offence-2025-05-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/ugandan-un-judge-jailed-britai...
baal80spam 1y ago
Wait, you can't be serious.
- bluGill 1y ago
  One of my coworkers - a senior engineer - came to the US from India and found it a big change - sure he knew how to cook, but he didn't realize he would have to cook every meal. He has two house keepers before who would come in the morning make breakfast, and clean the house. They would then leave for the afternoon and return to make supper and minor tidying up. He really only had enough work for 1 house keeper but having 2 meant if one was sick or quit he had time to find a second. Since he was paying them less than $1/day each the total cost was very reasonable. Who know if or how long the above will continue, but it is still possible in many countries if you can get a job there.
  - geodel 1y ago
    Yup, no big deal. One of my cousin has like 2 housekeepers full time and 2 comes are different time of day like help with cooking and cleaning during lunch and dinner. Their luxury car is however lowest end Audi and another is Corolla. On flip side he had to change 2 jobs because travel distance as ~20 miles but in term of duration it was 4+ hrs daily. And no such thing as peak hours there, day-in/day out, morning, afternoon, late night, week day, weekend, same worst possible traffic. Any interaction with real world outside of home can wear people down specially the kind who keep multiple household helps. From traffic, to pollution, medical care, school admissions, doing groceries, shopping, parking and on and on. One way to think is at absolute top level like senior most politicians, industrialist, CEOs, other types of super influential people, developed vs developing countries' lifestyle can match, but as one start moving down the ladder, the quality falls very rapidly in developing world and serious compromises can start just 2 step down from top.

drewcoo 1y ago

And it would be heartless not to. Those housekeepers need jobs and incomes.

mauvehaus 1y ago
Perhaps not exactly comparable, but I went to a talk at wlog REI from some relatively ordinary person who climbed some famous, but accessible peak (Kilimanjaro?). I asked about the practice of hiring local porters, and got basically this answer. The local economy pretty much depends on the influx of foreign money from the people climbing. A fit person would be physically capable of carrying their full load, but it simply isn't done because of the economic disparity between the foreign climbers and the local porters. I don't know if that was enforced by law or custom, but the presenter was quite clear that it's not really possible to climb without local porters.
- normie3000 1y ago
  On Kilimanjaro you must employ a guide, a cook for the guide, and a porter to carry the gear of the cook and the guide. You are welcome to carry your own gear but at this point you've already got a support team of 3 people and are paying $1500+. An extra porter is probably around $100.
tuatoru 1y ago
I don't know why you are getting downvoted. Over the years I have heard several anecdotes from "expat" wives in various places (Kenya, Philippines, New Guinea) of being taken aside by a local headman soon after arrival and being told that they will hire a cook and a housekeeper and a laundrymaid. On the mediocrity principle, I think this is how things worked in general. Necessary to the local economy.
JohnBooty 1y ago
Yeah I think this is something that people in countries like the US don't instinctively understand, or at least I didn't. My Filipino friend explained to me that back home, if you have more than a certain amount of money, it's seen as incredibly selfish not to employ people as housekeepers, etc. I'd imagine that's true in a lot of places with income disparity and/or high unemployment numbers. It made a lot of sense to me.
- bombcar 1y ago
  We have that in the USA for some things - depending on where you live. Some places if you’re the only house on the block who mows their own lawn, you’ll be considered stingy or weird.
- magicalhippo 1y ago
  My mom visited a professor in an African country a few years back, as part of a project. She told me the professor had a guy employed to open and close the gates for when he drove to work and came home in the evening. That's all the guy did. Full time job. Sounded so preposterous at first, but after thinking a wee bit I came to a similar conclusion that the alternatives might be a lot worse. It was steady income, albeit not a lot.
  - lazyasciiart 1y ago
    I assume he also stayed actively present at the gates during the day and/or night and functioned as some kind of watchman?
  - ricardobayes 1y ago
    Sounds like any gated community with a security guard post at the entrance.
- 47282847 1y ago
  I understand where this is coming from but that argument simply doesn’t make sense. There are many ways to give back to society; providing low-status jobs is only one of them. And a poor one, because it locks people in that status and heteronomy. Within 10 minutes, anyone can come up with some ideas that would contribute to other people’s development and growth in a more sustainable fashion. It serves other purposes. That narrative is a convenient collective lie, full stop.
cess11 1y ago
Are all jobs and incomes alike?
impossiblefork 1y ago
It doesn't heartless. You can, instead of paying for a housekeeper pay for machines etc. made in the country in question, thus creating technical jobs there that might develop people more than housekeeping does.
- bluGill 1y ago
  The machines are more expensive than the housekeeper and the housekeeper doesn't have the education to make them. In the US (and Europe...) labor is expensive so it make sense to have technical people design machines.
ta1243 1y ago
Personally I'd hate the lack of privacy

rasz 1y ago

Or an UN judge living in UK https://www.reuters.com/world/ugandan-un-judge-jailed-britain-over-six-years-forced-labour-offence-2025-05-02/ https://www.reuters.com/world/ugandan-un-judge-jailed-britai...

baal80spam 1y ago

Wait, you can't be serious.

bluGill 1y ago
One of my coworkers - a senior engineer - came to the US from India and found it a big change - sure he knew how to cook, but he didn't realize he would have to cook every meal. He has two house keepers before who would come in the morning make breakfast, and clean the house. They would then leave for the afternoon and return to make supper and minor tidying up. He really only had enough work for 1 house keeper but having 2 meant if one was sick or quit he had time to find a second. Since he was paying them less than $1/day each the total cost was very reasonable. Who know if or how long the above will continue, but it is still possible in many countries if you can get a job there.
- geodel 1y ago
  Yup, no big deal. One of my cousin has like 2 housekeepers full time and 2 comes are different time of day like help with cooking and cleaning during lunch and dinner. Their luxury car is however lowest end Audi and another is Corolla. On flip side he had to change 2 jobs because travel distance as ~20 miles but in term of duration it was 4+ hrs daily. And no such thing as peak hours there, day-in/day out, morning, afternoon, late night, week day, weekend, same worst possible traffic. Any interaction with real world outside of home can wear people down specially the kind who keep multiple household helps. From traffic, to pollution, medical care, school admissions, doing groceries, shopping, parking and on and on. One way to think is at absolute top level like senior most politicians, industrialist, CEOs, other types of super influential people, developed vs developing countries' lifestyle can match, but as one start moving down the ladder, the quality falls very rapidly in developing world and serious compromises can start just 2 step down from top.