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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01) Looks like it. It’s a sail training ship, but

by SllX 1y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01) Looks like it. It’s a sail training ship, but it has an engine looking at the infobox, presumably so it’s not relying on the sails for tours such as this, and maybe because the ship itself is for training and they need a failsafe? To be honest, I’m not gathering what the purpose of such a ship is to a modern Navy other than maintaining cultural continuity and a tradition in wind sailing. EDIT: I'm still inside the edit window but there have been several good answers below. Rather than responding to each one individually let me just say y'all have provided some great answers. Thanks!

Tomte 1y ago
Learning the fundamentals. Germany puts all aspiring naval officers through a tour on the Gorch Fock. It‘s kot just culture, although those ships also serve as excellent ambassadors to far-flung countries.
- nickysielicki 1y ago
  The fundamentals have obviously changed. At no point in any serious engagement will it ever be important to have experience with sailing. This ship should have been dry docked and turned into a museum years ago. Two people are dead.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    The fundamentals include things like teamwork and following orders. You can learn those on a sailing ship just fine.
    - bombcar 1y ago
      You learn them better. A big ship can run just fine with a few people; heck, it's probably possible to run with just one if we admit it. Big sailing ships don't work like that, you can't furl a sail without intense physical cooperation and teamwork.
  - shakow 1y ago
    That sail-trained sailors make better sailors than engine-trained sailors is similar to how glider-trained pilots make better pilots after transition than engine-trained pilots. They typically acquired a better understanding of the medium they're evolving in, giving them a deeper understanding of the dynamic situation of their craft.
    - nottorp 1y ago
      Same for being aware of the lower abstraction layers down to machine code when you're programming in a high level language.
  - achierius 1y ago
    This incident could have happened regardless of the type of ship. Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd suggest against saying so.
  - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
    There’s a lot more to seamanship and crewmanship than propulsion methods. Cuauhtemoc is a training ship designed to teach that, not primarily how to work sails. Also it was built in 1982 so I fail to see how it should be a museum ship since it’s not that old or historic.
  - kbelder 1y ago
    You can go your whole programming career without using assembly, but it unquestionably makes you a better programmer.
    - nickysielicki 1y ago
      Sure -- what the fuck does that have to do with sailing, though?
- raverbashing 1y ago
  I suppose "not hitting bridges" is part of the fundamentals But it's really curious how it seems those collisions have been becoming more frequent (or only our awareness of it?) Another alternative is "the sort" working better than ever which means that maritime employment in some places does not attract the best professionals
  - defrost 1y ago
    To be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic. It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.
    - usrusr 1y ago
      On the videos the ship is drifting backwards, from wind and/or currents (are currents the East River dominated by tides?). I don't think that they ever intended to clear the bridge. The fundamental they missed was keeping their maneuvering engine up and running (or calling in some tugs).
      - detourdog 1y ago
        Yes, the East river and the Hudson are both tidal estuaries. The tide has a big effect on water flow direction. I'm an in-experienced sailor but I was surprised they left with the water flowing against them.
        sklargh 1y ago
        Had similar thoughts. Hell Gate is no joke.
      - defrost 1y ago
        Damn. My bad for getting the full details .. I came to this story via a chain of bridge clearance fail stories and jumped to the assumption this was another intended passage clearance mistake. There are some knuckle chewing engineering videos of planned water transits of "big loads" timed happen for a still water king low tide .. fast work with tiny clearances and major downsides on failure.
- murderfs 1y ago
  Yeah, well, if you've invested 135 million euros into repairing a sailboat, you might as well put it to use...
  - lnsru 1y ago
    [flagged]
alistairSH 1y ago
The USS Constitution is still operated by the USN. No longer solely a training vessel, but fills a similar ceremonial role. And the USCG operates USCGC Eagle as a training vessel for future officers attending their Academy.

by SllX 1y ago

Tomte 1y ago

Learning the fundamentals. Germany puts all aspiring naval officers through a tour on the Gorch Fock. It‘s kot just culture, although those ships also serve as excellent ambassadors to far-flung countries.

nickysielicki 1y ago
The fundamentals have obviously changed. At no point in any serious engagement will it ever be important to have experience with sailing. This ship should have been dry docked and turned into a museum years ago. Two people are dead.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  The fundamentals include things like teamwork and following orders. You can learn those on a sailing ship just fine.
  - bombcar 1y ago
    You learn them better. A big ship can run just fine with a few people; heck, it's probably possible to run with just one if we admit it. Big sailing ships don't work like that, you can't furl a sail without intense physical cooperation and teamwork.
- shakow 1y ago
  That sail-trained sailors make better sailors than engine-trained sailors is similar to how glider-trained pilots make better pilots after transition than engine-trained pilots. They typically acquired a better understanding of the medium they're evolving in, giving them a deeper understanding of the dynamic situation of their craft.
  - nottorp 1y ago
    Same for being aware of the lower abstraction layers down to machine code when you're programming in a high level language.
- achierius 1y ago
  This incident could have happened regardless of the type of ship. Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd suggest against saying so.
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  There’s a lot more to seamanship and crewmanship than propulsion methods. Cuauhtemoc is a training ship designed to teach that, not primarily how to work sails. Also it was built in 1982 so I fail to see how it should be a museum ship since it’s not that old or historic.
- kbelder 1y ago
  You can go your whole programming career without using assembly, but it unquestionably makes you a better programmer.
  - nickysielicki 1y ago
    Sure -- what the fuck does that have to do with sailing, though?
raverbashing 1y ago
I suppose "not hitting bridges" is part of the fundamentals But it's really curious how it seems those collisions have been becoming more frequent (or only our awareness of it?) Another alternative is "the sort" working better than ever which means that maritime employment in some places does not attract the best professionals
- defrost 1y ago
  To be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic. It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.
  - usrusr 1y ago
    On the videos the ship is drifting backwards, from wind and/or currents (are currents the East River dominated by tides?). I don't think that they ever intended to clear the bridge. The fundamental they missed was keeping their maneuvering engine up and running (or calling in some tugs).
    - detourdog 1y ago
      Yes, the East river and the Hudson are both tidal estuaries. The tide has a big effect on water flow direction. I'm an in-experienced sailor but I was surprised they left with the water flowing against them.
      - sklargh 1y ago
        Had similar thoughts. Hell Gate is no joke.
    - defrost 1y ago
      Damn. My bad for getting the full details .. I came to this story via a chain of bridge clearance fail stories and jumped to the assumption this was another intended passage clearance mistake. There are some knuckle chewing engineering videos of planned water transits of "big loads" timed happen for a still water king low tide .. fast work with tiny clearances and major downsides on failure.
murderfs 1y ago
Yeah, well, if you've invested 135 million euros into repairing a sailboat, you might as well put it to use...
- lnsru 1y ago
  [flagged]

alistairSH 1y ago

The USS Constitution is still operated by the USN. No longer solely a training vessel, but fills a similar ceremonial role. And the USCG operates USCGC Eagle as a training vessel for future officers attending their Academy.