6 ms·
The article says it lost power, but the photo shows a wind powered vessel with sails. Some kind of hybrid ship?
by ars 1y ago
The article says it lost power, but the photo shows a wind powered vessel with sails.
Some kind of hybrid ship?
- frumplestlatz 1y agoSailing ships generally have auxiliary engines.
- SllX 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01) Looks like it. It’s a sail training ship, but it has an engine looking at the infobox, presumably so it’s not relying on the sails for tours such as this, and maybe because the ship itself is for training and they need a failsafe? To be honest, I’m not gathering what the purpose of such a ship is to a modern Navy other than maintaining cultural continuity and a tradition in wind sailing. EDIT: I'm still inside the edit window but there have been several good answers below. Rather than responding to each one individually let me just say y'all have provided some great answers. Thanks!
- Tomte 1y agoLearning the fundamentals. Germany puts all aspiring naval officers through a tour on the Gorch Fock. It‘s kot just culture, although those ships also serve as excellent ambassadors to far-flung countries.
- nickysielicki 1y agoThe fundamentals have obviously changed. At no point in any serious engagement will it ever be important to have experience with sailing. This ship should have been dry docked and turned into a museum years ago. Two people are dead.
- ceejayoz 1y agoThe fundamentals include things like teamwork and following orders. You can learn those on a sailing ship just fine.
- bombcar 1y agoYou learn them better. A big ship can run just fine with a few people; heck, it's probably possible to run with just one if we admit it. Big sailing ships don't work like that, you can't furl a sail without intense physical cooperation and teamwork.
- shakow 1y agoThat sail-trained sailors make better sailors than engine-trained sailors is similar to how glider-trained pilots make better pilots after transition than engine-trained pilots. They typically acquired a better understanding of the medium they're evolving in, giving them a deeper understanding of the dynamic situation of their craft.
- nottorp 1y agoSame for being aware of the lower abstraction layers down to machine code when you're programming in a high level language.
- achierius 1y agoThis incident could have happened regardless of the type of ship. Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd suggest against saying so.
- loloquwowndueo 1y agoThere’s a lot more to seamanship and crewmanship than propulsion methods. Cuauhtemoc is a training ship designed to teach that, not primarily how to work sails. Also it was built in 1982 so I fail to see how it should be a museum ship since it’s not that old or historic.
- kbelder 1y agoYou can go your whole programming career without using assembly, but it unquestionably makes you a better programmer.
- nickysielicki 1y agoSure -- what the fuck does that have to do with sailing, though?
- raverbashing 1y agoI suppose "not hitting bridges" is part of the fundamentals But it's really curious how it seems those collisions have been becoming more frequent (or only our awareness of it?) Another alternative is "the sort" working better than ever which means that maritime employment in some places does not attract the best professionals
- defrost 1y agoTo be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic. It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.
- usrusr 1y agoOn the videos the ship is drifting backwards, from wind and/or currents (are currents the East River dominated by tides?). I don't think that they ever intended to clear the bridge. The fundamental they missed was keeping their maneuvering engine up and running (or calling in some tugs).
- detourdog 1y agoYes, the East river and the Hudson are both tidal estuaries. The tide has a big effect on water flow direction. I'm an in-experienced sailor but I was surprised they left with the water flowing against them.
- sklargh 1y agoHad similar thoughts. Hell Gate is no joke.
- defrost 1y agoDamn. My bad for getting the full details .. I came to this story via a chain of bridge clearance fail stories and jumped to the assumption this was another intended passage clearance mistake. There are some knuckle chewing engineering videos of planned water transits of "big loads" timed happen for a still water king low tide .. fast work with tiny clearances and major downsides on failure.
- murderfs 1y agoYeah, well, if you've invested 135 million euros into repairing a sailboat, you might as well put it to use...
- lnsru 1y ago[flagged]
- alistairSH 1y agoThe USS Constitution is still operated by the USN. No longer solely a training vessel, but fills a similar ceremonial role. And the USCG operates USCGC Eagle as a training vessel for future officers attending their Academy.
- melevittfl 1y agoSailboats, except for the smallest ones, usually have a motor and propeller to move without relying on wind.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- jabl 1y agoPractically all sailing vessels in use (some racing sailboats etc excepted) have auxiliary engines for moving in constricted areas like ports. Considering this accident happened with people up in the rigging, they were presumably hoisting or lowering the sails when the engine lost power and they drifted into the bridge.
- thomasfedb 1y agoI’ve heard (can’t tell for sure from the photos I’ve seen) that they were “dressing the yards” at the time - which is when the crew stands on top of the yards (the horizontal spars) side by side. It’s done for ceremonial or celebratory reasons, not for work.
- jabl 1y agoYou're right. As can be clearly seen in the snippets shown in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIlRiauatEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIlRiauatEo
- grues-dinner 1y agoI'd be surprised if any port would easily permit such a ship to come or go under sail power. Sailing a ship into port is risky at the best of times. Yachts may do it into a marina when the wind and tide are just right for fun it as a little bit of a flex. But ports have work to do and having out-of-control sailing ships three sheets to the wind, so to speak, having misjudged the tide or whatever, is just dangerous. Also, having your ship stuck in port for days waiting for wind and tide to be suitable for leaving would have been commonplace before engines, as would bring becalmed for weeks on end and being unable to evade dangerous storms. None are probably high on the list of things these ships really want to be doing today.
- arwineap 1y agoThe port expects yachts to safely operate their vessels, and it's up to the captains to execute. That could mean sailing in / out of port, or it could mean under engine power. The trouble I'm having is if they were leaving under engine power alone, with such fast current, why was the ground tackle not ready to be deployed? We ran a much (much) smaller vessel with an unreliable engine and often pre-prepared our anchor before getting into port
- perlgeek 1y agoYou can see both from the videos and the photos that the sails weren't set, so I can't have been wind-powered at the time of the accident. Operating a large, wind-powered vessel in a harbor or near shore is very tricky and dangerous (what if the wind suddenly doesn't provide enough propulsion to counteract some water current? what if it suddenly changes direction? breaking is also very tricky) which is why it's not done, and some auxiliary engine provides propulsion.
- zeeZ 1y agoFrom the video you can also see that it's moving backwards.