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Arbitraging US manufacturing to Asia and pocketing the profit has led to current predicament where we have an economy of healthcare workers, people in software,

Arbitraging US manufacturing to Asia and pocketing the profit has led to current predicament where we have an economy of healthcare workers, people in software, bartenders/service people barely scraping by, and skeleton crew of blue collar labor holding up domestic manufacturing. That manufacturing labor force makes make vastly lower wages than two generations prior. The vast majority of Americans live paycheck to paycheck - again, this was a labor arbitrage facilitated by US Companies and politicians from both sides. This is where there is a bit of horseshoe effect between the left and right when it comes to labor/jobs/the economy. America is a farm - the US consumer is the product. The only thing that has gotten cheaper over the last few decades are consumer goods from Asia. The US auto industry is more or less an oligopoly - none of the OEMS, outside of Tesla, are seriously interested in competing on price.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
Manufacturing jobs aren’t coming back, it’ll be automated primarily, and Americans don’t want to work the manufacturing jobs that already exist. You’re arguing for status based pay through work identity (“good manufacturing jobs”) when you should argue for living wages regardless of job, unions, and universal healthcare. 80% of US jobs are service based, that is unlikely to change, especially as healthcare grows with 4M Boomers retiring per year. If American auto companies aren’t interested in building affordable EVs, why are we harming US consumers by preventing them from buying imported EVs? Because, as you said, farming profits for US legacy auto. I want to buy high quality, affordable Chinese products. I don’t want to buy lower quality US products solely because of cronyism and ideology to protect their profits using trade policy. https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-think-manufacturing-employment-greatfor-other-people https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-think-manufacturing-empl... https://www.npr.org/sections/planet-money/2025/05/13/g-s1-66112/why-arent-americans-filling-the-manufacturing-jobs-we-already-have https://www.npr.org/sections/planet-money/2025/05/13/g-s1-66... https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-tariffs-manufacturing-jobs-stock-market-rcna200058 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-tariffs-ma...
- bumby 1y ago
  What’s your perspective on manufacturing capacity being necessary for national security? The U.S. has moved to service jobs because they tend to have the highest margins and capitalism is going to do what capitalism does. That is, unless specific guardrails are enacted to protect other societal interests.
  - toomuchtodo 1y ago
    That it’s important, but should be automated and understood to be cost inefficient. The cost inefficiency is a readiness premium. But when you have admin officials saying iPhone manufacturing is coming to the US, that isn’t what is being advocated for. China is the largest producer and buyer of industrial robotics for manufacturing, for example. They are built to build, this is not what the US is advocating for. Do you think this admin would put the necessary guardrails on public private partnership manufacturing supply chain infra to prevent it from being strip mined or otherwise extracted for profit and not be available when needed? I do not, but I do support treating such manufacturing supply chains as critical national security interests. Maybe we’ll get another shot in a few years when competent folks are in control, but maybe not.
    - bumby 1y ago
      I agree with most everything you’ve said, but a lot of manufacturing for critical stuff is not automated in the mass-production sense. There are tons of small batch manufacturing in spaces like aerospace, electrical transmission, etc. that are probably considered critical and already difficult to get US companies to manufacture.
      - toomuchtodo 1y ago
        Agreed! But, again, I ask who is going to work these jobs if Americans have said they don’t want to? The labor market has been propped up by immigrants for the last half decade, and this admin is not friendly to immigrants. There are already not enough Americans who will work the manufacturing jobs that exist today (or the jobs going unfilled are outcompeted by higher wage service work). Americans are cosplaying, they are not serious in this regard. If they were, they would be filling these jobs they say are so desperately needed, and manufacturers would pay whatever market clearing wage is required to fill said jobs. If they wanted good paying jobs today, they’d unionize. Way easier than waiting for manufacturing to come back (which will take years, if at all) and maybe have a shot at one of the few manufacturing jobs that are created. China delivers results because they have the will to, Americans just want status and vibes. (Purpose of the system is what it does, watch what people do not what they say, etc) https://www.plantengineering.com/manufacturers-grapple-with-an-age-old-problem-attracting-gen-z-workers/ https://www.plantengineering.com/manufacturers-grapple-with-... https://www.axios.com/2024/03/13/immigration-economy-jobs-growth-good https://www.axios.com/2024/03/13/immigration-economy-jobs-gr... https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-workers https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-wor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=labor%20shortages&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

toomuchtodo 1y ago

Manufacturing jobs aren’t coming back, it’ll be automated primarily, and Americans don’t want to work the manufacturing jobs that already exist. You’re arguing for status based pay through work identity (“good manufacturing jobs”) when you should argue for living wages regardless of job, unions, and universal healthcare. 80% of US jobs are service based, that is unlikely to change, especially as healthcare grows with 4M Boomers retiring per year. If American auto companies aren’t interested in building affordable EVs, why are we harming US consumers by preventing them from buying imported EVs? Because, as you said, farming profits for US legacy auto. I want to buy high quality, affordable Chinese products. I don’t want to buy lower quality US products solely because of cronyism and ideology to protect their profits using trade policy. https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-think-manufacturing-employment-greatfor-other-people https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-think-manufacturing-empl... https://www.npr.org/sections/planet-money/2025/05/13/g-s1-66112/why-arent-americans-filling-the-manufacturing-jobs-we-already-have https://www.npr.org/sections/planet-money/2025/05/13/g-s1-66... https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-tariffs-manufacturing-jobs-stock-market-rcna200058 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-tariffs-ma...

bumby 1y ago
What’s your perspective on manufacturing capacity being necessary for national security? The U.S. has moved to service jobs because they tend to have the highest margins and capitalism is going to do what capitalism does. That is, unless specific guardrails are enacted to protect other societal interests.
- toomuchtodo 1y ago
  That it’s important, but should be automated and understood to be cost inefficient. The cost inefficiency is a readiness premium. But when you have admin officials saying iPhone manufacturing is coming to the US, that isn’t what is being advocated for. China is the largest producer and buyer of industrial robotics for manufacturing, for example. They are built to build, this is not what the US is advocating for. Do you think this admin would put the necessary guardrails on public private partnership manufacturing supply chain infra to prevent it from being strip mined or otherwise extracted for profit and not be available when needed? I do not, but I do support treating such manufacturing supply chains as critical national security interests. Maybe we’ll get another shot in a few years when competent folks are in control, but maybe not.
  - bumby 1y ago
    I agree with most everything you’ve said, but a lot of manufacturing for critical stuff is not automated in the mass-production sense. There are tons of small batch manufacturing in spaces like aerospace, electrical transmission, etc. that are probably considered critical and already difficult to get US companies to manufacture.
    - toomuchtodo 1y ago
      Agreed! But, again, I ask who is going to work these jobs if Americans have said they don’t want to? The labor market has been propped up by immigrants for the last half decade, and this admin is not friendly to immigrants. There are already not enough Americans who will work the manufacturing jobs that exist today (or the jobs going unfilled are outcompeted by higher wage service work). Americans are cosplaying, they are not serious in this regard. If they were, they would be filling these jobs they say are so desperately needed, and manufacturers would pay whatever market clearing wage is required to fill said jobs. If they wanted good paying jobs today, they’d unionize. Way easier than waiting for manufacturing to come back (which will take years, if at all) and maybe have a shot at one of the few manufacturing jobs that are created. China delivers results because they have the will to, Americans just want status and vibes. (Purpose of the system is what it does, watch what people do not what they say, etc) https://www.plantengineering.com/manufacturers-grapple-with-an-age-old-problem-attracting-gen-z-workers/ https://www.plantengineering.com/manufacturers-grapple-with-... https://www.axios.com/2024/03/13/immigration-economy-jobs-growth-good https://www.axios.com/2024/03/13/immigration-economy-jobs-gr... https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-workers https://www.axios.com/2023/05/08/us-labor-shortage-older-wor... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=labor%20shortages&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...