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These protests were mostly against the state of Israel which isn't a violation of Title IX.I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wr

by Braxton1980 1y ago

These protests were mostly against the state of Israel which isn't a violation of Title IX.I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those? ----- My concern is that Anti-Zionism is being conflated with Anti-Semitism by the complainants in order to 1. Bolster their case wrongfully by increasing the number of incidents 2. Defend the Israeli government 3. Expand Anti-Semitism to include Anti-Zionism in court decisions making future criticism of Israel dangerous For example the complaint you linked to opens with ".. Since October 7, 2023, when Hamas terrorists invaded Israel and slaughtered, tortured, raped, burned, and mutilated 1,200 people—including infants, children, and the elderly" Unnecessary details to the situation because if their claims against Harvard are valid the source of the anti-Semitism is irrelevant (edit: meaning anger at Israel's response to the attack) This means it was placed at the beginning of the complaint to illicit an emotional reaction/reminder of the horrific event. Edit: Just to add that if a person is criticizing Israel and a Jewish person feels threatened or avoids campus because of it that's not anti-Semitism.

uhhhd 1y ago
"I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those?" That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display.
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  >That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. "I'd like to open my case against John Smith for murder your honor. My only piece of evidence that he committed this horrific crime is that he was accused of it. I rest my case" >And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display. By all who were there or just some? Being the protest was open to all how can you lump all protestors together because of the views of some. >intentionally obtuse Because I avoided generalizations?
- const_cast 1y ago
  > And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse No actually I think it's right on the money. Some vaguely brown people being very mad at Israel does not antisemitism make. Are they denying the Holocaust? Are they saying Jews should die? Or... are they saying Israel is committing a genocide? Are they blaming those particular jews running Israel? I think we all know it's almost entirely the latter, and almost none of the former.
  - ethbr1 1y ago
    [flagged]
  - Jensson 1y ago
    > Are they saying Jews should die? Quite a lot of people are. Just because some don't doesn't mean that others aren't.
    - const_cast 1y ago
      In every movement there are going to be extremists and people with prejudice. However, you don't need to be antisemitic to be anti-Zionist. There are pretty much infinite reasons to denounce Israel, and the state seems to be making more every day. If I, or anyone else, wanted to make a poignant argument against Israel we could simple gesture to the pile of crimes against humanity the state has committed. We wouldn't need to resort to antisemitism.
- slater 1y ago
  Why is it so difficult to understand that one can be against the actions of the current Israeli government, without being a raging anti-semite?
uhhhd 1y ago
References to Israel are not unnecessary details when protestors call for the elimination of the only existing Jewish state. Anti-Zionism isn't criticism of Israel. Its eliminationist rhetoric and plainly bigoted.
- Braxton1980 1y ago
  >Anti-Zionism isn't criticism of Israel "opposition to the establishment or support of the state of Israel" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Zionism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Zionism >Its eliminationist rhetoric and plainly bigoted. There are some who think Israel shouldn't exist others who think their government is wrong. If a person thinks all Israelis should be murdered then that's wrong. This is not the whole representation of Anti-Zionism but you are trying to make it You can only be bigoted against a person or group of people, not a country or government.
  - bernb 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - mandmandam 1y ago
      [flagged]
      - AStonesThrow 1y ago
        The trouble is that Israel-Palestine is a proxy war with spiritual implications. Israel is composed of people who just went through a legitimate holocaust and genocide themselves. Therefore it seems logical to most people that they'd be ready and willing to exact vengeance in the measure it was dished out to them. Furthermore, their Tanakh (our Old Testament) details the battles between the Children of Israel and their neighbors, which were murderous, atrocious, and genocidal on both sides. Why should modern warfare be any different? Conversely, Palestine is composed of an amalgam of pan-Arabic people and, correct me if I'm wrong, no particularly deep roots in terms of common ethnic descent, or claim to such land or territory, since it was British until recently. Therefore, the Palestinians are a stand-in for all the Arab world, and by proxy, we're fighting all those Arab terrorists by targeting Palestine, and vice versa. Now the Arab world is nakedly genocidal against the Jews. They really make no bones about their desire to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth. By proxy they did a pretty good job during WWII -- the Third Reich, being the enemy of their enemy, was greatly pleasing to the Arab world. So the Middle East has two little Davids fighting each other on behalf of their respective Goliaths. Israel's campaign has finally ramped up to the point where the rest of the world cries injustice and genocide and enough. But Israel has vowed "never again [to us]" while living under very real and existential threat that the entire Arab world would very much do it again to them, if they had half the chance. So if the West puts the brakes on Israel, then we're letting the other Goliath's David win, and nobody around here wants that.

uhhhd 1y ago

"I know there were specific instances of Anti-Semitism, which were wrong and should be punished, but is there evidence Harvard didn't take action for those?" That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display.

Braxton1980 1y ago
>That is literally the allegation made in the lawsuit. "I'd like to open my case against John Smith for murder your honor. My only piece of evidence that he committed this horrific crime is that he was accused of it. I rest my case" >And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse — it ignores the blatant anti-Jewish bigotry that was plainly on display. By all who were there or just some? Being the protest was open to all how can you lump all protestors together because of the views of some. >intentionally obtuse Because I avoided generalizations?
const_cast 1y ago
> And calling these protests merely "anti-Israel" is intentionally obtuse No actually I think it's right on the money. Some vaguely brown people being very mad at Israel does not antisemitism make. Are they denying the Holocaust? Are they saying Jews should die? Or... are they saying Israel is committing a genocide? Are they blaming those particular jews running Israel? I think we all know it's almost entirely the latter, and almost none of the former.
- ethbr1 1y ago
  [flagged]
- Jensson 1y ago
  > Are they saying Jews should die? Quite a lot of people are. Just because some don't doesn't mean that others aren't.
  - const_cast 1y ago
    In every movement there are going to be extremists and people with prejudice. However, you don't need to be antisemitic to be anti-Zionist. There are pretty much infinite reasons to denounce Israel, and the state seems to be making more every day. If I, or anyone else, wanted to make a poignant argument against Israel we could simple gesture to the pile of crimes against humanity the state has committed. We wouldn't need to resort to antisemitism.
slater 1y ago
Why is it so difficult to understand that one can be against the actions of the current Israeli government, without being a raging anti-semite?

uhhhd 1y ago

References to Israel are not unnecessary details when protestors call for the elimination of the only existing Jewish state. Anti-Zionism isn't criticism of Israel. Its eliminationist rhetoric and plainly bigoted.

Braxton1980 1y ago
>Anti-Zionism isn't criticism of Israel "opposition to the establishment or support of the state of Israel" https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Zionism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Zionism >Its eliminationist rhetoric and plainly bigoted. There are some who think Israel shouldn't exist others who think their government is wrong. If a person thinks all Israelis should be murdered then that's wrong. This is not the whole representation of Anti-Zionism but you are trying to make it You can only be bigoted against a person or group of people, not a country or government.
- bernb 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - mandmandam 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - AStonesThrow 1y ago
      The trouble is that Israel-Palestine is a proxy war with spiritual implications. Israel is composed of people who just went through a legitimate holocaust and genocide themselves. Therefore it seems logical to most people that they'd be ready and willing to exact vengeance in the measure it was dished out to them. Furthermore, their Tanakh (our Old Testament) details the battles between the Children of Israel and their neighbors, which were murderous, atrocious, and genocidal on both sides. Why should modern warfare be any different? Conversely, Palestine is composed of an amalgam of pan-Arabic people and, correct me if I'm wrong, no particularly deep roots in terms of common ethnic descent, or claim to such land or territory, since it was British until recently. Therefore, the Palestinians are a stand-in for all the Arab world, and by proxy, we're fighting all those Arab terrorists by targeting Palestine, and vice versa. Now the Arab world is nakedly genocidal against the Jews. They really make no bones about their desire to wipe Israel from the face of the Earth. By proxy they did a pretty good job during WWII -- the Third Reich, being the enemy of their enemy, was greatly pleasing to the Arab world. So the Middle East has two little Davids fighting each other on behalf of their respective Goliaths. Israel's campaign has finally ramped up to the point where the rest of the world cries injustice and genocide and enough. But Israel has vowed "never again [to us]" while living under very real and existential threat that the entire Arab world would very much do it again to them, if they had half the chance. So if the West puts the brakes on Israel, then we're letting the other Goliath's David win, and nobody around here wants that.