4 ms·

I know I am an outlier case, but I am unable to function in society (or even individually) with an unrestricted smartphone. I'll literally not eat, not drink wa

I know I am an outlier case, but I am unable to function in society (or even individually) with an unrestricted smartphone. I'll literally not eat, not drink water, not sleep, miss all my classes, final exams, I'll miss the plane I booked a month earlier. I am 20yo, not a child either, but I have AuDHD. For years now I've implemented (often custom) solutions that allow me to use WhatsApp and $BANK_APP on a smartphone without having access to any sort of infinitely scrollable content. I'm living a fine life today - a moderately successful college student. Give me an unrestricted smartphone and you wouldn't be able to recognize my face after 3 days. In a week I'll likely be sick due to decreased immunity because of poor sleep, lack of nutrition & hydration and lack of self-care. I don't think I'm alone in this, I've certainly seen similar anecdotes over the years. People who literally can't live with access to unrestricted smartphones - we exist. I'm glad to see these sort of "Alternative Device" movements - it surely is my longstanding dream to build a company that produces just that, a smart device you can't abuse, a bicycle for the mind with support wheels. Not everybody is healthy enough to ride a normal bicycle - people with disabilities will fall over and injure themselves if you put them on one, or worse, if you force them to use one. I understand the self-control aspect - I'm trying to build it with various approaches. I hope I'll get it figured out before my 30s. It's something so many healthy neurotypical people take for granted, yet there is a minority who just can't.

mbac32768 1y ago
I've heard of people losing interest in all of that infinitely scrollable shit once they start taking GLP-1 drugs for weight loss. Makes sense, seems to dampen the dopamine system a bit.
- Aerbil313 1y ago
  Indeed my problem is just that. IMHO ADHD should be renamed to Dopamine Dysregulation Disorder. In my experience it's a total analogue to diabetes if you swap glucose with dopamine.
eesmith 1y ago
I have not gotten a smartphone in part because I know how much even laptop access distracts me, to the point where I'll go places which have no wifi, like a park, just to get work done. I felt less alone after finding "Swapping 5G for 3G: Motivations, Experiences, and Implications of Contemporary Dumbphone Adoption" at https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3637402 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3637402 last year as it told me there were others who felt similarly. > Another group of participants (the second ideological grouping) saw dumbphones as a tool for defending their attention spans from smartphones. These participants described smartphones as “a hungry monster” for attention (U3-27) and an “itch in your pocket” (U5-28). Switching to a dumbphone was described by U6-41 as releasing an anchor that had been tightened around their waist. Reflecting on their time as smartphone users, these participants reported feeling that they had been missing out on meaningful activities – e.g., personal connections, shared moments with loved ones, and reading books. Instead, they engaged in activities like doomscrolling or, “the action of compulsively scrolling through social media or news feeds which relate to bad news.” Experiencing distraction was annoying for many participants, but for others it took a physical and mental toll. Having two children diagnosed with Autism spectrum disorders, U6-41 empathizes with the endless capabilities, settings, and launchers of the smartphone as not only “overwhelming” but “terrifying”.
- Aerbil313 1y ago
  I know a small community that avoids smartphones, and you can indeed feel the clear-mindedness energy emanate when you go to their place. Reading the paper you linked, thanks.
coffeefirst 1y ago
Jaron Lanier had a bit that there’s a subset of the population who can’t handle social media, it totally warps their minds. There’s some famous examples, but I’ve seen in with friends. I can’t quite relate because even a minute on TikTok makes me want to vomit. But I really dislike the idea that it’s the user’s fault for not having discipline or having some unspecified psychological quirk; the application is working on them exactly the way it was designed to.
- Aerbil313 1y ago
  Over the years of not using social media because I can't handle it, I arrived at the definitive conclusion that any form of social media (including HN) modifies a person's worldview, life goals, personality and behavior to significant degrees. I came to call this "ungrounding", it's in effect a detachment from how they would think and act if they were exposed to only the real world and not the artificial world that doesn't even exist. Little people remember anymore, but a decade ago people used to remark how the personality and manner of behavior of somebody they know changed when they got their first smartphone. This effect doesn't skip anybody, can be caused by plain old cable TV and very little use (about 30 mins./day) is enough. When I completely cut artificial content years ago, it took about 3 months for me to feel the veil lifted from my eyes and able to see the real world as-is and not through the lens of the content I consumed. It was a profound feeling when I first realized what happened to me, and it left me thinking and pitying all others I knew who are trapped with thought patterns unmatching their reality - most otherwise good, hardworking people. They didn't realize the lenses being put on (because it happened so slowly) and now they don't know the world isn't quite the way they see it is. No matter whether they see it as rose-colored or black-and-white, with an optimistic hue or a pessimistic blue, because of the fake, narrow representations they get exposed to regularly. It's almost like a mind virus, and you know what? It's immediately recognizable to me, the glossy eyes when they start to talk about X thing and Y event and Z news that all are actually totally irrelevant for them if they'd stop to think about it, yet they for some mysterious reason they put a high importance on them and talk about it as if it's life and death. I believe anybody who drops artificial content and re-grounds with reality will be able to readily see how captive the minds of their very loved ones are. Note: No AI was used in this comment, it's late at night and I'm in a particularly productive mood.

mbac32768 1y ago

I've heard of people losing interest in all of that infinitely scrollable shit once they start taking GLP-1 drugs for weight loss. Makes sense, seems to dampen the dopamine system a bit.

Aerbil313 1y ago
Indeed my problem is just that. IMHO ADHD should be renamed to Dopamine Dysregulation Disorder. In my experience it's a total analogue to diabetes if you swap glucose with dopamine.

eesmith 1y ago

I have not gotten a smartphone in part because I know how much even laptop access distracts me, to the point where I'll go places which have no wifi, like a park, just to get work done. I felt less alone after finding "Swapping 5G for 3G: Motivations, Experiences, and Implications of Contemporary Dumbphone Adoption" at https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3637402 https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3637402 last year as it told me there were others who felt similarly. > Another group of participants (the second ideological grouping) saw dumbphones as a tool for defending their attention spans from smartphones. These participants described smartphones as “a hungry monster” for attention (U3-27) and an “itch in your pocket” (U5-28). Switching to a dumbphone was described by U6-41 as releasing an anchor that had been tightened around their waist. Reflecting on their time as smartphone users, these participants reported feeling that they had been missing out on meaningful activities – e.g., personal connections, shared moments with loved ones, and reading books. Instead, they engaged in activities like doomscrolling or, “the action of compulsively scrolling through social media or news feeds which relate to bad news.” Experiencing distraction was annoying for many participants, but for others it took a physical and mental toll. Having two children diagnosed with Autism spectrum disorders, U6-41 empathizes with the endless capabilities, settings, and launchers of the smartphone as not only “overwhelming” but “terrifying”.

Aerbil313 1y ago
I know a small community that avoids smartphones, and you can indeed feel the clear-mindedness energy emanate when you go to their place. Reading the paper you linked, thanks.

coffeefirst 1y ago

Jaron Lanier had a bit that there’s a subset of the population who can’t handle social media, it totally warps their minds. There’s some famous examples, but I’ve seen in with friends. I can’t quite relate because even a minute on TikTok makes me want to vomit. But I really dislike the idea that it’s the user’s fault for not having discipline or having some unspecified psychological quirk; the application is working on them exactly the way it was designed to.

Aerbil313 1y ago
Over the years of not using social media because I can't handle it, I arrived at the definitive conclusion that any form of social media (including HN) modifies a person's worldview, life goals, personality and behavior to significant degrees. I came to call this "ungrounding", it's in effect a detachment from how they would think and act if they were exposed to only the real world and not the artificial world that doesn't even exist. Little people remember anymore, but a decade ago people used to remark how the personality and manner of behavior of somebody they know changed when they got their first smartphone. This effect doesn't skip anybody, can be caused by plain old cable TV and very little use (about 30 mins./day) is enough. When I completely cut artificial content years ago, it took about 3 months for me to feel the veil lifted from my eyes and able to see the real world as-is and not through the lens of the content I consumed. It was a profound feeling when I first realized what happened to me, and it left me thinking and pitying all others I knew who are trapped with thought patterns unmatching their reality - most otherwise good, hardworking people. They didn't realize the lenses being put on (because it happened so slowly) and now they don't know the world isn't quite the way they see it is. No matter whether they see it as rose-colored or black-and-white, with an optimistic hue or a pessimistic blue, because of the fake, narrow representations they get exposed to regularly. It's almost like a mind virus, and you know what? It's immediately recognizable to me, the glossy eyes when they start to talk about X thing and Y event and Z news that all are actually totally irrelevant for them if they'd stop to think about it, yet they for some mysterious reason they put a high importance on them and talk about it as if it's life and death. I believe anybody who drops artificial content and re-grounds with reality will be able to readily see how captive the minds of their very loved ones are. Note: No AI was used in this comment, it's late at night and I'm in a particularly productive mood.