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Not sure why this hasn't triggered a discussion, I thought a lot of readers include parents of young(er) children? I totally lost my teen to TikTok and deeply

Not sure why this hasn't triggered a discussion, I thought a lot of readers include parents of young(er) children? I totally lost my teen to TikTok and deeply regret succumbing to their (and my wife's) pressure to give them an iPhone at 14 (they're 16 now). It's like hours upon hours of mindless scrolling, with occasional gaming sprinkled in. My youngest is 10 and has a dependency on school iPad (school was giving up iPads during COVID when they were teaching remotely). We have to monitor their usage closely and unfortunately angry outbursts (ie when it's time to stop) are a regular occurrence. The 10yo does have a lot of extra-curricular activities so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens). But there's just no way I'm giving them a smartphone anytime soon. I think there's sooo many parents in my position and do hope that some of these devices might be able to help.

8note 1y ago
i cant imagine the effort it takes a parent to drag their kids out of tiktok and into playing video games
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
vb6sp6 1y ago
[dead]
hagbard_c 1y ago
Block the shit already then. Block it at the router, get rid of that fruit phone and get something you can have more control over - i.e. a rooted AOSP-derived Android distribution with a few extra tools installed - if you child absolutely has to have a 'smart' phone. If not and he - or most likely she given the TT addiction - absolutely needs a phone there are plenty of 'dumb' phones available to fit those needs. Yes yes yes, I know all about the supposed ostracisation caused by teens not having a phone but if the alternative is to give up your child to the CCP and the tech moguls I'd choose the former and send her/him to a different school. Here's what I´d do if a 'smart' phone is a requirement: - ditch the fruit phone, get a device which is supported by LineageOS. - root it. Install Timelimit [1]. Install the required server somewhere under your control. Make sure Timelimit is configured as 'device administrator' so it can not be removed or circumvented. Install it on your phone as well and maybe on your wife's - if she can be trusted not to give in too easily when your child wants to have more time than you allotted. If she is a pushover in this respect you'll have to take the lead and suffer the consequences of having your child and your wife see you as the big bad wolf but so be it. - No google account on that phone, no play store. Install F-Droid and Aurora Store. Install AFWall (firewall) and configure it to only allow those apps which really need to have network access. Put a password on AFWall so the firewall can only be edited by those who know it - and make sure your daughter/son does not get to know it. - She/he can now only run those apps which you allow him or her to run. You can remotely add and remove apps which can be run, add or remove time for those apps/categories/... (the thing can be configured just how you want it, from a single 'phone can be used for X minutes' to a hierarchy of categories each with their own rules on when, how long and how long in a single stretch after which follows a forced break apps in those categories can be used. - Timelimit is not a remote control tool, you can not see what your child is doing with the device. I don't like spying on my children so I intentionally do not run such tools but they do exist. I'd advice against using them unless you suspect foul play (grooming etc) because I consider these to be a breach of trust. The combination of Timelimit and the firewall give good control over which apps can be used and when/in what way they are used. As long as there is a browser on the device it can be used to reach undesired services like Tiktok so that is something to keep in mind: limit generic browser access. Best would be to simply not give the child a 'smart' phone. Second best is something like this, a device which you can configure to reduce the incentives for those 'hours of mindless scrolling' - don't allow such apps and put forced breaks on browsers, e.g. 5 minutes of access, 15 minutes forced break. If the child needs to have longer access for some reason let her explain why and grant it piecemeal. This is what I do for my 14yo daughter who also 'had to have a phone' according to my wife. There are no social media apps on the thing, she has access to our own XMPP server through Conversations, she can make photos, play music, do some browsing (with forced breaks) and has a total of 30 minutes of screen time per day for non-essential purposes. She has more time for reading books or playing music and actual phone time is unlimited as is the time for e.g. the public transport app which she needs to get to school. Root out the plague of Tiktok et al, root and branch. You're the parent, you have the power to act, use it. On my network it is blocked at both the DNS as well as the IP layer - first using ipsets with iptables, now using nftables sets. Devices can help but only if the parents are willing to use their parental authority - a dirty word according to many 'enlightened experts' whose 'expertise' is partly responsible for the mess we're in now - so use it. Ditch the fruit phone because it does not allow you the control you need. Don´t use a stock Android because it does not allow it either. Don't put a Google account on the phone, it is not necessary. Will your daughter like it? No, not initially, not if she was used to having unlimited access. She might try to find ways to get around the limits so you'll have to check your network for unknown devices since she might borrow a friend's old phone to get her fix. If you find her doing this you of course take away that phone but you should not get angry with her. Limit her phone time for a bit so she knows she did wrong but keep it at that. Encourage her to do things with all the time she now has since she is no longer doom-scrolling, find other things to do - hobbies etc, these used to be common but seem to be rare nowadays. Eventually she'll get used to not being controlled by her phone and she'll probably end up liking the freedom this gives but to get there you'll have to bite through that sour apple. I managed to keep my children (14 and 20) away from 'social' networks so I probably had and have an easier task than what awaits you but I think the effort it worth it. No good comes from having your children mind-controlled by the nefarious actors behind 'social' media. I hope you give them the good example by not using these 'services' either? [1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.timelimit.android.aosp.direct/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.timelimit.android.aosp.di...
- lazyasciiart 1y ago
  tl:dr; “why don’t you just”
  - hagbard_c 1y ago
    Problems are there to be solved, not kvetched about. Responsibilities are there to be carried, not abandoned or pushed towards others. Also, comments are there to be commented upon, not "WOOT-lol'd".
- tpmoney 1y ago
  > - ditch the fruit phone, get a device which is supported by LineageOS. Alternatively, you could use the parental controls built into that "fruit phone" to do all your recommended blocking without the hassle of setting up your own server, rooting a phone or giving 3rd party software administrative control over your kid's phone. Screen Time limits can be used to set limits (or hard blocks) on both applications and their associated websites. You can limit access to sets of apps to specific times of day, you can prevent the installation of new applications, or require remote approval of new applications. There's a number of other options in there too, and nothing you described seems to my recollection like you can't do with the built in tools.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago
    I was going to say that. Apple can do all that was mentioned, and I'm hardly against Apple, but they do give strong parental controls. Drives me crazy to give a 1000$ phone to a child that don't need it
  - hagbard_c 1y ago
    Here's why to ditch the 'fruit phone' from the 'fruit factory': no functional firewall on those devices, anything Apple is free to do whatever it wants according to the whims of Cupertino, not nearly the level of fine-grained control you can achieve with the mentioned setup, horribly expensive, subject to forced upgrades due to planned obsolescence, you need to totally buy in to their 'ecosystem', sleazy tricks like on-device content monitoring to 'protect the children', limited free software availability, etc. There are more reasons related to the freedom AOSP-derived Android distributions give for those who want to have more control over what the devices can be used for and which network resources they can connect to. It comes down to the difference between having a Linux-based device with near full access (with the exception of the radio firmware) and a factory-sealed no-serviceable-parts-inside device.
aaron695 1y ago
[dead]
Wowfunhappy 1y ago
> The 10yo does have a lot of extra-curricular activities so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens). But there's just no way I'm giving them a smartphone anytime soon. One option you might consider is a cellular Apple Watch.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
> so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens) our 9 year old has a simple Apple Watch for this purpose ($10/mo for a line); works great and no chance of it getting left somewhere like a phone
insane_dreamer 1y ago
> I totally lost my teen to TikTok and deeply regret succumbing to their (and my wife's) pressure to give them an iPhone at 14 (they're 16 now). It's like hours upon hours of mindless scrolling, with occasional gaming sprinkled in. We are struggling with this as well. Gave our son a phone for his 12th birthday (after putting it off for a couple of years) but with the agreement of no social media apps. We locked down the phone so he can't install any apps. However, YouTube doesn't require an app, so he can still do hours of mindless scrolling of YouTube shorts. He has a chat group with his friends (Messenger) that works well, and does some gaming (Genshin Impact and similar), which is fine. But the mindless scrolling is what's most detrimental. Apple has "Screen Time" controls but they're either useless or broken as they somehow reset on their own (anyone else have this problem)? I have network controls on the wifi so it's blocked after a certain time, but haven't found a good way of controlling the time on specific apps or websites. He keeps pushing for a TT account and we're adamant that he can have one. But it's relentless because "everyone has one".
cornhole 1y ago
If it wasn’t TikTok it’d be something else. I was on /b/ for a while until I grew out of it.

8note 1y ago

i cant imagine the effort it takes a parent to drag their kids out of tiktok and into playing video games

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

vb6sp6 1y ago

[dead]

hagbard_c 1y ago

Block the shit already then. Block it at the router, get rid of that fruit phone and get something you can have more control over - i.e. a rooted AOSP-derived Android distribution with a few extra tools installed - if you child absolutely has to have a 'smart' phone. If not and he - or most likely she given the TT addiction - absolutely needs a phone there are plenty of 'dumb' phones available to fit those needs. Yes yes yes, I know all about the supposed ostracisation caused by teens not having a phone but if the alternative is to give up your child to the CCP and the tech moguls I'd choose the former and send her/him to a different school. Here's what I´d do if a 'smart' phone is a requirement: - ditch the fruit phone, get a device which is supported by LineageOS. - root it. Install Timelimit [1]. Install the required server somewhere under your control. Make sure Timelimit is configured as 'device administrator' so it can not be removed or circumvented. Install it on your phone as well and maybe on your wife's - if she can be trusted not to give in too easily when your child wants to have more time than you allotted. If she is a pushover in this respect you'll have to take the lead and suffer the consequences of having your child and your wife see you as the big bad wolf but so be it. - No google account on that phone, no play store. Install F-Droid and Aurora Store. Install AFWall (firewall) and configure it to only allow those apps which really need to have network access. Put a password on AFWall so the firewall can only be edited by those who know it - and make sure your daughter/son does not get to know it. - She/he can now only run those apps which you allow him or her to run. You can remotely add and remove apps which can be run, add or remove time for those apps/categories/... (the thing can be configured just how you want it, from a single 'phone can be used for X minutes' to a hierarchy of categories each with their own rules on when, how long and how long in a single stretch after which follows a forced break apps in those categories can be used. - Timelimit is not a remote control tool, you can not see what your child is doing with the device. I don't like spying on my children so I intentionally do not run such tools but they do exist. I'd advice against using them unless you suspect foul play (grooming etc) because I consider these to be a breach of trust. The combination of Timelimit and the firewall give good control over which apps can be used and when/in what way they are used. As long as there is a browser on the device it can be used to reach undesired services like Tiktok so that is something to keep in mind: limit generic browser access. Best would be to simply not give the child a 'smart' phone. Second best is something like this, a device which you can configure to reduce the incentives for those 'hours of mindless scrolling' - don't allow such apps and put forced breaks on browsers, e.g. 5 minutes of access, 15 minutes forced break. If the child needs to have longer access for some reason let her explain why and grant it piecemeal. This is what I do for my 14yo daughter who also 'had to have a phone' according to my wife. There are no social media apps on the thing, she has access to our own XMPP server through Conversations, she can make photos, play music, do some browsing (with forced breaks) and has a total of 30 minutes of screen time per day for non-essential purposes. She has more time for reading books or playing music and actual phone time is unlimited as is the time for e.g. the public transport app which she needs to get to school. Root out the plague of Tiktok et al, root and branch. You're the parent, you have the power to act, use it. On my network it is blocked at both the DNS as well as the IP layer - first using ipsets with iptables, now using nftables sets. Devices can help but only if the parents are willing to use their parental authority - a dirty word according to many 'enlightened experts' whose 'expertise' is partly responsible for the mess we're in now - so use it. Ditch the fruit phone because it does not allow you the control you need. Don´t use a stock Android because it does not allow it either. Don't put a Google account on the phone, it is not necessary. Will your daughter like it? No, not initially, not if she was used to having unlimited access. She might try to find ways to get around the limits so you'll have to check your network for unknown devices since she might borrow a friend's old phone to get her fix. If you find her doing this you of course take away that phone but you should not get angry with her. Limit her phone time for a bit so she knows she did wrong but keep it at that. Encourage her to do things with all the time she now has since she is no longer doom-scrolling, find other things to do - hobbies etc, these used to be common but seem to be rare nowadays. Eventually she'll get used to not being controlled by her phone and she'll probably end up liking the freedom this gives but to get there you'll have to bite through that sour apple. I managed to keep my children (14 and 20) away from 'social' networks so I probably had and have an easier task than what awaits you but I think the effort it worth it. No good comes from having your children mind-controlled by the nefarious actors behind 'social' media. I hope you give them the good example by not using these 'services' either? [1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.timelimit.android.aosp.direct/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/io.timelimit.android.aosp.di...

lazyasciiart 1y ago
tl:dr; “why don’t you just”
- hagbard_c 1y ago
  Problems are there to be solved, not kvetched about. Responsibilities are there to be carried, not abandoned or pushed towards others. Also, comments are there to be commented upon, not "WOOT-lol'd".
tpmoney 1y ago
> - ditch the fruit phone, get a device which is supported by LineageOS. Alternatively, you could use the parental controls built into that "fruit phone" to do all your recommended blocking without the hassle of setting up your own server, rooting a phone or giving 3rd party software administrative control over your kid's phone. Screen Time limits can be used to set limits (or hard blocks) on both applications and their associated websites. You can limit access to sets of apps to specific times of day, you can prevent the installation of new applications, or require remote approval of new applications. There's a number of other options in there too, and nothing you described seems to my recollection like you can't do with the built in tools.
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 1y ago
  I was going to say that. Apple can do all that was mentioned, and I'm hardly against Apple, but they do give strong parental controls. Drives me crazy to give a 1000$ phone to a child that don't need it
- hagbard_c 1y ago
  Here's why to ditch the 'fruit phone' from the 'fruit factory': no functional firewall on those devices, anything Apple is free to do whatever it wants according to the whims of Cupertino, not nearly the level of fine-grained control you can achieve with the mentioned setup, horribly expensive, subject to forced upgrades due to planned obsolescence, you need to totally buy in to their 'ecosystem', sleazy tricks like on-device content monitoring to 'protect the children', limited free software availability, etc. There are more reasons related to the freedom AOSP-derived Android distributions give for those who want to have more control over what the devices can be used for and which network resources they can connect to. It comes down to the difference between having a Linux-based device with near full access (with the exception of the radio firmware) and a factory-sealed no-serviceable-parts-inside device.

aaron695 1y ago

[dead]

Wowfunhappy 1y ago

> The 10yo does have a lot of extra-curricular activities so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens). But there's just no way I'm giving them a smartphone anytime soon. One option you might consider is a cellular Apple Watch.

insane_dreamer 1y ago

> so having a cellphone would be a big help (to know where they are and give them an option to contact us if anything happens) our 9 year old has a simple Apple Watch for this purpose ($10/mo for a line); works great and no chance of it getting left somewhere like a phone

insane_dreamer 1y ago

> I totally lost my teen to TikTok and deeply regret succumbing to their (and my wife's) pressure to give them an iPhone at 14 (they're 16 now). It's like hours upon hours of mindless scrolling, with occasional gaming sprinkled in. We are struggling with this as well. Gave our son a phone for his 12th birthday (after putting it off for a couple of years) but with the agreement of no social media apps. We locked down the phone so he can't install any apps. However, YouTube doesn't require an app, so he can still do hours of mindless scrolling of YouTube shorts. He has a chat group with his friends (Messenger) that works well, and does some gaming (Genshin Impact and similar), which is fine. But the mindless scrolling is what's most detrimental. Apple has "Screen Time" controls but they're either useless or broken as they somehow reset on their own (anyone else have this problem)? I have network controls on the wifi so it's blocked after a certain time, but haven't found a good way of controlling the time on specific apps or websites. He keeps pushing for a TT account and we're adamant that he can have one. But it's relentless because "everyone has one".

cornhole 1y ago

If it wasn’t TikTok it’d be something else. I was on /b/ for a while until I grew out of it.