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I'm going to get beaten for even suggesting this, but I would say start with C. It's hard, it's time consuming, it takes a ton of (error prone) code to do anyth

by axiom 18y ago

I'm going to get beaten for even suggesting this, but I would say start with C. It's hard, it's time consuming, it takes a ton of (error prone) code to do anything useful. But after a few months you will have a solid grasp of how a computer operates on the hardware level. It's hard to overstate how important this is. Then learn Python/Ruby/Lisp/whatever.

comatose_kid 18y ago
I wonder how many C programmers started with it as their first language. For the OP, I would suggest picking up python or ruby. And focus on doing something fun. If you like graphics, pick up Processing. Find interesting code on the net and tweak it.
fuzzmeister 18y ago
While I agree that C is a great way to learn how the computer really operates, it isn't the first language that jumps to mind when I think "elementary programming."
djm 18y ago
I first started programming with C and had a terrible time. I didn't really get anywhere and went through a cycle of repeatedly giving up and them returning to it after having a break. I don't think it's a good way to start programming but I would encourage people to learn it at some point because of the reason you gave. I'd also suggest that the best way to get to grips with C is to learn assembly with a simple processor at the same time. People always seem to get stuck on pointers etc and that's easy to understand when you know a processor's addressing modes. Plus, it's always fun to use gcc to output (unoptimized) assembly code and compare it to what you would have written.
- axiom 18y ago
  I'm probably biased here, but I honestly can't imagine coming to grips with the way python handles variables without thinking of them as pointers and references (i.e. mutable vs. immutable, deep copy vs. shallow copy etc.) It would just seem to be a bunch of random special cases unless you know the machinery underneath. But definitely, C can be very frustrating. It takes weeks or months before you can do anything actually useful (not just nerdy fun, like calculating pi or something.) That being said, how do you explain the difference between an array and a linked list to someone who only knows python? to take a trivial example. Sure, you could, but it's extremely unintuitive. Whereas with C you're so close to the hardware that the distinction is obvious.

by axiom 18y ago

comatose_kid 18y ago

I wonder how many C programmers started with it as their first language. For the OP, I would suggest picking up python or ruby. And focus on doing something fun. If you like graphics, pick up Processing. Find interesting code on the net and tweak it.

fuzzmeister 18y ago

While I agree that C is a great way to learn how the computer really operates, it isn't the first language that jumps to mind when I think "elementary programming."

djm 18y ago

I first started programming with C and had a terrible time. I didn't really get anywhere and went through a cycle of repeatedly giving up and them returning to it after having a break. I don't think it's a good way to start programming but I would encourage people to learn it at some point because of the reason you gave. I'd also suggest that the best way to get to grips with C is to learn assembly with a simple processor at the same time. People always seem to get stuck on pointers etc and that's easy to understand when you know a processor's addressing modes. Plus, it's always fun to use gcc to output (unoptimized) assembly code and compare it to what you would have written.

axiom 18y ago
I'm probably biased here, but I honestly can't imagine coming to grips with the way python handles variables without thinking of them as pointers and references (i.e. mutable vs. immutable, deep copy vs. shallow copy etc.) It would just seem to be a bunch of random special cases unless you know the machinery underneath. But definitely, C can be very frustrating. It takes weeks or months before you can do anything actually useful (not just nerdy fun, like calculating pi or something.) That being said, how do you explain the difference between an array and a linked list to someone who only knows python? to take a trivial example. Sure, you could, but it's extremely unintuitive. Whereas with C you're so close to the hardware that the distinction is obvious.