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I find this a very thin argument, even thinner than the one coming from the authorities claiming rampant ticket fraud. I travel by train a shitton through all o

I find this a very thin argument, even thinner than the one coming from the authorities claiming rampant ticket fraud. I travel by train a shitton through all of Europe, and I have _never_ had the issue of boarding a train without knowing if I had a valid ticket for it. And even in the cities w/o gates there is some expectation that you will have to validate the ticket somewhere, at your leisure. Do you ever board street trams, for example? For the record, I am French. I used to be proud that nothing physical prevented you from boarding a train you had no ticket for. But, IMHO sadly, people like me have lost, because now trains also have ticket gates in France, which means that I: A) No longer can accompany my ailing relatives to their train seats if I don't have a ticket myself (/as I could twenty years ago) B) No longer can board the train when all my hands are full with luggage (since I need a free hand to search for the ticket in my wallet/bags to go through the damn machine).

socalgal2 1y ago
> I travel by train a shitton through all of Europe, and I have _never_ had the issue of boarding a train without knowing if I had a valid ticket for it. Like I said, I was used to Japan. I couldn't have boarded a train without passing through a gate for which I would have needed a ticket. As pointed out above, that happened in Paris. At no point between the metro and the train was their any barrier preventing me from getting on the train without a ticket. Just a tunnel with labels directly to the train. Being used to Japan, I assumed therefore I could work out out at my destination since there wasn't even a ticket purchasing place that I would notice, between those 2 spots. You need to remember, people who have not used your system (tourists) will have to make every mistake possible. I prefer a system that allows less mistakes as well as a system that lets me fix my mistake. You seem to prefer systems that require you to make a mistake once and get fined, and then learn how to use the system from the mistake.
- AshamedCaptain 1y ago
  Yes, slowing down native users of public transportation because of tourists is a big, popular movement in places like Paris. /s To transform your argument: why do my partially-disabled relatives now need to walk by themselves to their train seats? Just so that people who don't even read the instructions do not make a mistake that is going to result in a slap on the wrist fine (if anything, cause few revisors are going to fine you if you look touristy enough) ? The only thing I keep hearing is how having no barriers at all is just intrinsically better, and difficulties with getting used which such system look like very minor compared to the difficulties with moving from a system with no barriers to a system with barriers, not mentioning the disadvantages for users.
  - socalgal2 1y ago
    > Yes, slowing down native users of public transportation because of tourists is a big, popular movement in places like Paris. /s This argument falls flat give Japan's transit is infinitely more efficient and handles far more people than Paris. No one is slowed down by Japan's system.
    - AshamedCaptain 1y ago
      No, it is not. You simply cannot claim a gate-less system can be slower than one with gates. It is physically impossible, as you're literally removing the potential for bottleneck. Your generic comparison is moot anyway, because in Paris the normal metro system has had barriers since forever. It is the regional train system which used not to have gates.

socalgal2 1y ago

> I travel by train a shitton through all of Europe, and I have _never_ had the issue of boarding a train without knowing if I had a valid ticket for it. Like I said, I was used to Japan. I couldn't have boarded a train without passing through a gate for which I would have needed a ticket. As pointed out above, that happened in Paris. At no point between the metro and the train was their any barrier preventing me from getting on the train without a ticket. Just a tunnel with labels directly to the train. Being used to Japan, I assumed therefore I could work out out at my destination since there wasn't even a ticket purchasing place that I would notice, between those 2 spots. You need to remember, people who have not used your system (tourists) will have to make every mistake possible. I prefer a system that allows less mistakes as well as a system that lets me fix my mistake. You seem to prefer systems that require you to make a mistake once and get fined, and then learn how to use the system from the mistake.

AshamedCaptain 1y ago
Yes, slowing down native users of public transportation because of tourists is a big, popular movement in places like Paris. /s To transform your argument: why do my partially-disabled relatives now need to walk by themselves to their train seats? Just so that people who don't even read the instructions do not make a mistake that is going to result in a slap on the wrist fine (if anything, cause few revisors are going to fine you if you look touristy enough) ? The only thing I keep hearing is how having no barriers at all is just intrinsically better, and difficulties with getting used which such system look like very minor compared to the difficulties with moving from a system with no barriers to a system with barriers, not mentioning the disadvantages for users.
- socalgal2 1y ago
  > Yes, slowing down native users of public transportation because of tourists is a big, popular movement in places like Paris. /s This argument falls flat give Japan's transit is infinitely more efficient and handles far more people than Paris. No one is slowed down by Japan's system.
  - AshamedCaptain 1y ago
    No, it is not. You simply cannot claim a gate-less system can be slower than one with gates. It is physically impossible, as you're literally removing the potential for bottleneck. Your generic comparison is moot anyway, because in Paris the normal metro system has had barriers since forever. It is the regional train system which used not to have gates.