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> model collapse happens when the training data no longer matches real-world data This isn't a significant issue IMO, as human-created content isn't "real-worl

> model collapse happens when the training data no longer matches real-world data This isn't a significant issue IMO, as human-created content isn't "real-world" per se; it's human-created world, an interpretation and representation of the real. The real world is the raw data perceived by sensors, human or machine. And while model-generated content doesn't match human-created content well, in the vast majority of cases it's still humans curating, modifying and publishing generated content, based on how useful it is (there are of course spammers, etc but that's a general issue). This is something humans do with content created by other humans too. So over time generated content will become a sort of norm adopted by and inevitably molding humans, same as created content does. Instead of model collapse, both sources of content will converge over time, particularly as the ability to also generate content directly from the real world is developed and integrated into multi-modal models.

keybored 1y ago
It is correct that this is a back and forth process and not simply a thing that either evolves or devolves or collapses. We are impacted by the tools we use. No matter how advanced the tools. But you can’t just dismiss the issue on the grounds that humans are removed from reality as well because they have a representation-of-thing instead of instead of thing as such. In fact it doesn’t make sense. We could be directing slave monkeys to write literature. Then we could water down that description of the process as humans curating, modifying and publishing content—just indirectly, but what’s one more level of indirection between primates. We could woolily describe it like that. We’re just creating content. Okay. But is it going anywhere? Or is it just gibberish? No, we won’t simply keep doing it if the monkeys give us gibberish.
viraptor 1y ago
> The real world is the raw data perceived by sensors, human or machine. It's much more than that. There's data our common sensors don't catch typically (virtually 100% of videos don't capture UV ranges) and there's data we're not able to catch at in any way yet.

keybored 1y ago

It is correct that this is a back and forth process and not simply a thing that either evolves or devolves or collapses. We are impacted by the tools we use. No matter how advanced the tools. But you can’t just dismiss the issue on the grounds that humans are removed from reality as well because they have a representation-of-thing instead of instead of thing as such. In fact it doesn’t make sense. We could be directing slave monkeys to write literature. Then we could water down that description of the process as humans curating, modifying and publishing content—just indirectly, but what’s one more level of indirection between primates. We could woolily describe it like that. We’re just creating content. Okay. But is it going anywhere? Or is it just gibberish? No, we won’t simply keep doing it if the monkeys give us gibberish.

viraptor 1y ago

> The real world is the raw data perceived by sensors, human or machine. It's much more than that. There's data our common sensors don't catch typically (virtually 100% of videos don't capture UV ranges) and there's data we're not able to catch at in any way yet.