6 ms·

the comment is being downvoted because its central premise is preposterous: the BBC lied about vetted people for MI5 30 years ago -> therefore it's a lying prop

the comment is being downvoted because its central premise is preposterous: the BBC lied about vetted people for MI5 30 years ago -> therefore it's a lying propaganda institution -> therefore it should be disbanded first of all, even if MI5 vetting for this kind of thing wasn't a completely reasonable precaution--read Spycatcher if you don't know why--do you think the BBC had a choice in matters? second, this was 30 years ago. third, if we're going to just disband any institution that's silently beholden to MI5, you may as well abandon the whole country. fourth, the BBC makes a metric tonne of fantastic content enjoyed by people all over the world, and yet somehow it should be disbanded for trying to keep soviet spies out over 30 years ago? people just love to hate the BBC, egged on by the cowardly, self-interested right-wing media, and it's just sad, because it's genuinely one of the truly great things about the country. it's our greatest artistic cultural achievement by a long distance

verisimi 1y ago
> people just love to hate the BBC, egged on by the cowardly, self-interested right-wing media, and it's just sad, because it's genuinely one of the truly great things about the country. it's our greatest artistic cultural achievement by a long distance Sadly, lying for decades to everyone is indeed Britain's greatest artistic cultural achievement.
- permo-w 1y ago
  this is a mentally lazy response
  - verisimi 1y ago
    I don't love lies or liars.
    - permo-w 1y ago
      then hide yourself in a cave and never come out because everyone lies and everything lies and the world is built on lies name an institution as large and wide and old as the BBC that hasn't told far more lies for far less honourable reasons than defending against soviet espionage
      - verisimi 1y ago
        I agree with that ^ though I'd say the bbc has told more than it's fair share. Must I love it?
        permo-w 1y ago
        of course you can love it or not love it, but I'd make my decision based on whether you enjoy its content rather than on what MI5 made them do during the cold war
        xxshansixxkkgs 1y ago
        [flagged]
lmm 1y ago
> even if MI5 vetting for this kind of thing wasn't a completely reasonable precaution--read Spycatcher if you don't know why--do you think the BBC had a choice in matters? There is always a choice. People could have refused, resigned, spoken out. > second, this was 30 years ago. Short enough for people who were complicit in it to be decisionmakers now. > if we're going to just disband any institution that's silently beholden to MI5, you may as well abandon the whole country. They need to be rooted out. They and their ilk are the entities that actually subverted the country. We used to have principles and care about them, or at least pretend to. > the BBC makes a metric tonne of fantastic content enjoyed by people all over the world, and yet somehow it should be disbanded for trying to keep soviet spies out over 30 years ago? The BBC commissions some great content from great creators - as do all British TV channels. If you look at what the BBC itself does, there's a lot of bad there.
- permo-w 1y ago
  read Spycatcher. in the post-war/cold war era, Britain, particularly the upper classes, was fucking riddled with soviet agents, mostly British-born communist sympathisers who were activated by the USSR, and many of them could have been stopped from doing huge damage if simple vetting had been in place this isn't mccarthyite nonsense, this isn't right-wing hatred for communism. I am a socialist. this is the absolute fact that a foreign power was actively, successfully pushing agents into positions in the establishment all over the country. do you think it's a coincidence the vetting stopped when the soviet union collapsed? >The BBC commissions some great content from great creators - as do all British TV channels. If you look at what the BBC itself does, there's a lot of bad there. do you genuinely believe that ITV, Dave, Channel 5, Sky, etc are producing or have ever produced content on par with the BBC? Channel 4 is the only other channel that can even remotely compete, and I would imagine they too would have been equally under MI5's thumb if they'd been important enough to warrant it. going further, do you really think that any British TV channel would have spoken out if MI5 came to them and told them they needed to vet their employees as a matter of national security? even further, has any organisation ever done that in the history of MI5? in the global history of spy agencies?
  - lmm 1y ago

verisimi 1y ago

> people just love to hate the BBC, egged on by the cowardly, self-interested right-wing media, and it's just sad, because it's genuinely one of the truly great things about the country. it's our greatest artistic cultural achievement by a long distance Sadly, lying for decades to everyone is indeed Britain's greatest artistic cultural achievement.

permo-w 1y ago
this is a mentally lazy response
- verisimi 1y ago
  I don't love lies or liars.
  - permo-w 1y ago
    then hide yourself in a cave and never come out because everyone lies and everything lies and the world is built on lies name an institution as large and wide and old as the BBC that hasn't told far more lies for far less honourable reasons than defending against soviet espionage
    - verisimi 1y ago
      I agree with that ^ though I'd say the bbc has told more than it's fair share. Must I love it?
      - permo-w 1y ago
        of course you can love it or not love it, but I'd make my decision based on whether you enjoy its content rather than on what MI5 made them do during the cold war
      - xxshansixxkkgs 1y ago
        [flagged]

lmm 1y ago

> even if MI5 vetting for this kind of thing wasn't a completely reasonable precaution--read Spycatcher if you don't know why--do you think the BBC had a choice in matters? There is always a choice. People could have refused, resigned, spoken out. > second, this was 30 years ago. Short enough for people who were complicit in it to be decisionmakers now. > if we're going to just disband any institution that's silently beholden to MI5, you may as well abandon the whole country. They need to be rooted out. They and their ilk are the entities that actually subverted the country. We used to have principles and care about them, or at least pretend to. > the BBC makes a metric tonne of fantastic content enjoyed by people all over the world, and yet somehow it should be disbanded for trying to keep soviet spies out over 30 years ago? The BBC commissions some great content from great creators - as do all British TV channels. If you look at what the BBC itself does, there's a lot of bad there.

permo-w 1y ago
read Spycatcher. in the post-war/cold war era, Britain, particularly the upper classes, was fucking riddled with soviet agents, mostly British-born communist sympathisers who were activated by the USSR, and many of them could have been stopped from doing huge damage if simple vetting had been in place this isn't mccarthyite nonsense, this isn't right-wing hatred for communism. I am a socialist. this is the absolute fact that a foreign power was actively, successfully pushing agents into positions in the establishment all over the country. do you think it's a coincidence the vetting stopped when the soviet union collapsed? >The BBC commissions some great content from great creators - as do all British TV channels. If you look at what the BBC itself does, there's a lot of bad there. do you genuinely believe that ITV, Dave, Channel 5, Sky, etc are producing or have ever produced content on par with the BBC? Channel 4 is the only other channel that can even remotely compete, and I would imagine they too would have been equally under MI5's thumb if they'd been important enough to warrant it. going further, do you really think that any British TV channel would have spoken out if MI5 came to them and told them they needed to vet their employees as a matter of national security? even further, has any organisation ever done that in the history of MI5? in the global history of spy agencies?
- lmm 1y ago