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Because we want to run more than just Home Assistant on the same OS? Because traditionally OS and application layers were separated? Because we trust mature Lin

Because we want to run more than just Home Assistant on the same OS? Because traditionally OS and application layers were separated? Because we trust mature Linux distros more when it comes to LTS and security patches? Because we already know our way around Debian/Ubuntu/Nix/etc.?

theK 1y ago
Absolutely this. Once you get into the game of running apps at home with certain quality assumptions you end up having to bolt on various things (VPN, DNS, log aggregation etc) that are better wrapped around the application instead of having them run within it. And having an AppOS typically just gets in the way of all that plus what edejong said that you already know how to do it on the typical production OSes and learning to do it for every AppOS is just cumbersome.
ramy_d 1y ago
Seconded. My home server does many things, one of which is homeassistant.
SparkyMcUnicorn 1y ago
Proxmox adds very little overhead. I'm running dozens of things alongside HAOS. The OS is the path of least resistance and gives you the best experience for low maintenance. https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=haos-vm https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=hao...
- chneu 1y ago
  I'm also running dozens of things alongside HA and I don't have to use proxmox. It's not hard to run HA in unsupported mode. The only real difference is an annoying reminder that you're unsupported. Everything else works, including plugins/add-ons. I've run HA a bunch of ways. It doesn't really matter all that much. Use HACS to fill any gaps.
  - SparkyMcUnicorn 1y ago
    One-click updates work from the dashboard? I don't think they would. Of course you don't have to go the proxmox route, but it is an easy route. I have a proxmox cluster, so moving things between machines, high availability, and backups are a breeze. Had an SSD go bad a few months ago, and I just moved everything on that machine to another node until the new drive showed up. It was a pleasant experience. There's plenty of other ways to achieve this, but this is what I chose and I'm happy with it. It's simple, and I can manage everything from my phone if needed.
    - chneu 1y ago
      Yes, one click updates work just fine. The only difference is the unsupported message which only appears after reboots or an update. Click ignore and it goes away.
- Denvercoder9 1y ago
  > Proxmox adds very little overhead. It's still running a second kernel and entire userspace stack. In my world that's not "very little overhead".
  - aryonoco 1y ago
    Using Proxmox with lxc containers, there is no second kernel. It uses the host kernel’s native cgroups and namespaces for process isolation. You can actually achieve the same with just systems and namespaces. Having said that, I think if you prefer traditional distro packaging, you should absolutely stick to that.
  - Aurornis 1y ago
    ProxMox supports both VMs and LXC containers. You would use LXC containers for low overhead. No second kernel.
    - Denvercoder9 1y ago
      ProxMox supports it, but it's not what the linked script does, nor is it officially supported by HAOS.
      - SparkyMcUnicorn 1y ago
        Yep! I'm aware of the tradeoffs here. For home assistant specifically, there's two options if you want to stay on the path of first-class support. Run it bare metal or in a VM. Going a different path isn't a bad choice, or even a big downgrade. I had fun with all the different ways of running home assistant 6+ years ago, and then decided to embrace a solution that required the least fuss and would hold up long term. I'm happy with my choice, and it gave me exactly what I was expecting.
goodpoint 1y ago
> we trust mature Linux distros more when it comes to LTS and security patches This. If I have to trust some huge container or custom OS where is the benefit of open source?
lhamil64 1y ago
I used to use Home Assistant via Docker, but I've since switched to Proxmox with HAOS in a VM and a second Debian VM for everything else. My main reason for this is that it seems like the more supported scenario. For example, when the Voice Assistant stuff first came out the setup was only really documented via HAOS add-ons. I managed to get it working with standalone Docker containers but it was a pain to figure out. It really is simpler to just use HAOS IMO.

theK 1y ago

Absolutely this. Once you get into the game of running apps at home with certain quality assumptions you end up having to bolt on various things (VPN, DNS, log aggregation etc) that are better wrapped around the application instead of having them run within it. And having an AppOS typically just gets in the way of all that plus what edejong said that you already know how to do it on the typical production OSes and learning to do it for every AppOS is just cumbersome.

ramy_d 1y ago

Seconded. My home server does many things, one of which is homeassistant.

SparkyMcUnicorn 1y ago

Proxmox adds very little overhead. I'm running dozens of things alongside HAOS. The OS is the path of least resistance and gives you the best experience for low maintenance. https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=haos-vm https://community-scripts.github.io/ProxmoxVE/scripts?id=hao...

chneu 1y ago
I'm also running dozens of things alongside HA and I don't have to use proxmox. It's not hard to run HA in unsupported mode. The only real difference is an annoying reminder that you're unsupported. Everything else works, including plugins/add-ons. I've run HA a bunch of ways. It doesn't really matter all that much. Use HACS to fill any gaps.
- SparkyMcUnicorn 1y ago
  One-click updates work from the dashboard? I don't think they would. Of course you don't have to go the proxmox route, but it is an easy route. I have a proxmox cluster, so moving things between machines, high availability, and backups are a breeze. Had an SSD go bad a few months ago, and I just moved everything on that machine to another node until the new drive showed up. It was a pleasant experience. There's plenty of other ways to achieve this, but this is what I chose and I'm happy with it. It's simple, and I can manage everything from my phone if needed.
  - chneu 1y ago
    Yes, one click updates work just fine. The only difference is the unsupported message which only appears after reboots or an update. Click ignore and it goes away.
Denvercoder9 1y ago
> Proxmox adds very little overhead. It's still running a second kernel and entire userspace stack. In my world that's not "very little overhead".
- aryonoco 1y ago
  Using Proxmox with lxc containers, there is no second kernel. It uses the host kernel’s native cgroups and namespaces for process isolation. You can actually achieve the same with just systems and namespaces. Having said that, I think if you prefer traditional distro packaging, you should absolutely stick to that.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  ProxMox supports both VMs and LXC containers. You would use LXC containers for low overhead. No second kernel.
  - Denvercoder9 1y ago
    ProxMox supports it, but it's not what the linked script does, nor is it officially supported by HAOS.
    - SparkyMcUnicorn 1y ago
      Yep! I'm aware of the tradeoffs here. For home assistant specifically, there's two options if you want to stay on the path of first-class support. Run it bare metal or in a VM. Going a different path isn't a bad choice, or even a big downgrade. I had fun with all the different ways of running home assistant 6+ years ago, and then decided to embrace a solution that required the least fuss and would hold up long term. I'm happy with my choice, and it gave me exactly what I was expecting.

goodpoint 1y ago

> we trust mature Linux distros more when it comes to LTS and security patches This. If I have to trust some huge container or custom OS where is the benefit of open source?

lhamil64 1y ago

I used to use Home Assistant via Docker, but I've since switched to Proxmox with HAOS in a VM and a second Debian VM for everything else. My main reason for this is that it seems like the more supported scenario. For example, when the Voice Assistant stuff first came out the setup was only really documented via HAOS add-ons. I managed to get it working with standalone Docker containers but it was a pain to figure out. It really is simpler to just use HAOS IMO.