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The worst thing about EntityBeans is they were so bad they made Hibernate look good, which led people to think it was good. After 10 years of hammering against

by zmmmmm 1y ago

The worst thing about EntityBeans is they were so bad they made Hibernate look good, which led people to think it was good. After 10 years of hammering against ORM complexity I finally switched to using thin database wrapper layers and have not once ever regretted it.

icedchai 1y ago
Yes! Hibernate was awful, but still light years ahead of EJBs. I worked on a couple of Hibernate projects and always left asking why...
- jbverschoor 1y ago
  I never had any trouble with Hibernate tbh. It allowed you to drop back to raw sql if needed, and also custom fields to select if needed. I never understood the fight against ORMs. In the end you'll simply be writing your own framework
  - int_19h 1y ago
    Only if you insist on a nearly 1:1 mapping between your data and your class hierarchy.
grandiego 1y ago
Hibernate... a real PITA every time the application needed something beyond basic single-table CRUD queries; sadly for me it happened 99% of the times. After some months of torture, plain JDBC with their stupid checked exceptions was refreshing, even without wrappers.
jbverschoor 1y ago
I you just wanted queries, entity beans were ok. Just a lot of boilerplate code, but the overal architecture and structure of JEE is still very sound
- icedchai 1y ago
  A lot of boilerplate and XML hell! What did you like about JEE? I worked in that world for years and don't miss it in the least.
  - jbverschoor 1y ago
    You know what's funny? Spring (earlier versions) had even more xml ;-) I dunno it just worked for me. But I kept using the standards, no vendor lockin stuff, which bea etc always wanted. I think the servlet design is great, the whole packaging/deployment model is great. And then well the session beans were overkill in general, so they were swapped out quite early by me. Swapped jsp out for I think velocity templates. And that application is still alive, running, and on the same platform. And Java meant, at least for me and how I configured it, proper debugging and IDE support (love Eclipse), hot code reload, easy releases, repeatability, ci/cd. The last 20 years, no __significant__ improvements in my opinion.
    - icedchai 1y ago
      I think servlets are great, too. Coincidentally I also swapped out JSP for Freemarker and then Velocity templates pretty early. The session beans and entity beans I could both live without. The "heavy weight" nature of the commercial app servers really bothered me. JBoss was fine, but WebLogic, WebSphere, etc were awful.

by zmmmmm 1y ago

icedchai 1y ago

Yes! Hibernate was awful, but still light years ahead of EJBs. I worked on a couple of Hibernate projects and always left asking why...

jbverschoor 1y ago
I never had any trouble with Hibernate tbh. It allowed you to drop back to raw sql if needed, and also custom fields to select if needed. I never understood the fight against ORMs. In the end you'll simply be writing your own framework
- int_19h 1y ago
  Only if you insist on a nearly 1:1 mapping between your data and your class hierarchy.

grandiego 1y ago

Hibernate... a real PITA every time the application needed something beyond basic single-table CRUD queries; sadly for me it happened 99% of the times. After some months of torture, plain JDBC with their stupid checked exceptions was refreshing, even without wrappers.

jbverschoor 1y ago

I you just wanted queries, entity beans were ok. Just a lot of boilerplate code, but the overal architecture and structure of JEE is still very sound

icedchai 1y ago
A lot of boilerplate and XML hell! What did you like about JEE? I worked in that world for years and don't miss it in the least.
- jbverschoor 1y ago
  You know what's funny? Spring (earlier versions) had even more xml ;-) I dunno it just worked for me. But I kept using the standards, no vendor lockin stuff, which bea etc always wanted. I think the servlet design is great, the whole packaging/deployment model is great. And then well the session beans were overkill in general, so they were swapped out quite early by me. Swapped jsp out for I think velocity templates. And that application is still alive, running, and on the same platform. And Java meant, at least for me and how I configured it, proper debugging and IDE support (love Eclipse), hot code reload, easy releases, repeatability, ci/cd. The last 20 years, no __significant__ improvements in my opinion.
  - icedchai 1y ago
    I think servlets are great, too. Coincidentally I also swapped out JSP for Freemarker and then Velocity templates pretty early. The session beans and entity beans I could both live without. The "heavy weight" nature of the commercial app servers really bothered me. JBoss was fine, but WebLogic, WebSphere, etc were awful.