4 ms·

Hi Peter, thanks for doing this AMA. I am traveling to the US soon for work from Europe. I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports

Hi Peter, thanks for doing this AMA. I am traveling to the US soon for work from Europe. I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks. My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection, but times has changed now and it has been happening a lot more frequently. I am wondering what is the best course of action, prior to travel and if asked to give your phone and password. Also, what happens if you refuse to do so? Is the worst case scenario that they will send you back to where you came from?

lbrito 1y ago
Given the very real risks involved, can't your employer waive the travel requirement for the next few years?
- b112 1y ago
  Culture and society are a road, a path. What if the current path means a permanent shift. What if this administration seems friendly compared to the next?
BeetleB 1y ago
Not a lawer, but the ACLU has a page on this: Short FAQ: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement-airports-and-other-ports-entry-us#do-i-have-to-provide-my-laptop-passwords-or-unlock-my-mobile-phone-for-law-enforcement-officers-at-the-border https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter... Dedicated article: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agents-search-your-electronic https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...
- proberts 1y ago
  Thank you. This is excellent guidance.
- mandeepj 1y ago
  from [1]: > Refusal to do so might lead to delay, additional questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection. Then, there's no point in denying device search? [1]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement-airports-and-other-ports-entry-us#do-i-have-to-provide-my-laptop-passwords-or-unlock-my-mobile-phone-for-law-enforcement-officers-at-the-border https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...
david422 1y ago
I'm wondering if anyone uses burner phones. I have an old phone, and a second phone number that I got from Tello for $5 a month, intending to use it for a business number, but then never did. It's currently completely detached from anything personal and I figure if I do need to go over the border I could just use that still for any communication and internet access, but personal details would be at a very bare minimum.
- AdrianB1 1y ago
  Yes. If I will have to go there on a normal visa, I will not take my phone with me, just the SIM card. For the laptop, I don't care at all, it is a company laptop and as long as the company agrees to open it up for the border control, I will, but I will set a clean password upfront that meets the minimum complexity requirements ("UperLower12345#") with no access to anything else. I have long random passwords on all accounts like email or Amazon account, I never type it in because I never know the password, that may be a problem if they ask me - who will believe that the only 2 passwords I ever know are for the company laptop and for my desktop at home in Europe? This is not because I have something to hide, but because I have nothing to show. I don't have Facebook, Twitter or Instagram accounts, don't keep pictures on the phone (family pictures are downloaded on the NAS, I don't take other pictures), so there is nothing to show on a personal level, while the company I work for is a big, old US company and the content of the laptop is theirs, not mine, and it is nothing sensitive that even our business competitors would be interested into. I case I would go there as a tourist, my only luggage would be my motorcycle helmet and a pair of gloves, I would rent a bike, buy a cheap phone with a local number and do road trips around the country. Not even a suitcase, so nothing to show. If they ask me about itinerary, that is a high risk for me because I use to travel across Europe without an itinerary, just a direction, they may not believe me, but old bikers don't go to a destination, they go wherever the road goes.
twosid3dDice 1y ago
Leave gadgets at home. Buy burners here. Access data remotely. Wipe and dump burners before flight home.
proberts 1y ago
The short answer is that CBP has the right to ask to see your electronic devices and you have the right to refuse but if you refuse (and you are not a U.S. green card holder or citizen), CBP likely will deny you admission and send you home.
- deadbabe 1y ago
  I had a friend who was asked to unlock her phone, and she did, and then… they did nothing. They watched her do it and moved on to the next question. Seems like asking someone to do this is just a good test to see the kind of individual they’re dealing with. It’s not practical to thoroughly search phones at scale and plus they know people can just have burner phones anyway. If you’re cagey and combative they know you’re a problem.
  - mrguyorama 1y ago
    It's CBP It's not actually about any form of screening. It's a power trip. Only the dumbest criminal or terrorist would bring an incriminating device across the border and have any need to say "no" to that request. Which, stopping dumb criminals and terrorists is important and valuable and they do exist, but nobody applied to work for CBP in order to check the phones of dumb criminals. They applied because they have strong opinions about certain things.
    - deadbabe 1y ago
      Still, if a dumb criminal or terrorist does slip past you, that just means you’re an even bigger idiot. So might as well ask people to unlock the phone.
      - ulfw 1y ago
        LOL. Yea. Sure. That scales up well with millions of tourists. Madness how this is being normalised now in the US
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
mandeepj 1y ago
> My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection Get a burner phone! Upload your entire data to the cloud as well. Either you can store your phone in the check-in luggage or restore your data once you've arrived at your US location.
- rane 1y ago
  So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?
  - AdrianB1 1y ago
    Don't lie. If you are caught, very nasty things can happen to you.
    - ulfw 1y ago
      Or even better, don't go there in the first place. This is madness. How are you just normalising this?
  - mandeepj 1y ago
    > So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone? Carry a cheap burner phone with you, then. Related: KPMG, Deloitte Ask Staff to Use Burner Phones for overseas travel -> https://archive.is/lml0L https://archive.is/lml0L
fucalost 1y ago
For what it’s worth, I recently travelled to the US from the Middle East (into Houston) and was also concerned about this. My solution was to delete apps I didn’t want to be searched (e.g. WhatsApp) after having made a cloud backup, then enabling airplane mode. CBP’s website [1] states: > Prior to beginning a basic or advanced search, CBP Officers will ensure all data and network connections are disabled And no, I wasn’t searched (thankfully!) [1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-search-electronic-devices https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc...
belorn 1y ago
For any electronic device it is advisable to take a complete backup of the unit, store an encrypted version somewhere online, and then restore the device to factory reset. Do not log in to any account that you wouldn't feel perfectly fine giving up in an inspection. They can already hijack any phone number, so the only vulnerability you are giving up by crossing the border is the files, call log/sms, and accounts you bring with you.
robomartin 1y ago
> I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks. I travel internationally all the time. I work with companies in China, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Europe and Latin America. Meaning, I know lots of people who travel internationally with great frequency. I have never heard from anyone having any such problems. Ever. Not during this administration nor others. Stop listening to idiots pushing false narratives. It's fear mongering. Not real. Oddly enough, I have been asked more questions when travelling to Canada (Montreal) over the years than almost anywhere else. Nothing serious, thigs like "Why are you travelling to Canada?", "Where are you staying?", "How long?", "Where do you work?", "What's your website and business email?", "Who are you meeting with?", "What is their contact information?", etc. And, BTW, all of this at the standard entry passport check booth, not a side room. Of course, it feels intrusive when it happens. I look at it as security theater. Just chill and go through the process. Being stupid about this can ruin your trip in any country. Unless you are a diplomat, you are not important enough to bother with. Picking a fight with entry officials in any country will result in bad things happening to you. Don't be that person. To the point about security theater: Last year we travelled to Mexico on vacation. When we got to the hotel we bought a few supplies. A couple of the items were sealed the type of plastic packaging that you cannot possibly open with your bare hands or teeth. I said "I'll go to the front desk and see if they can let me use a pair of scissors". Without missing a beat, my daughter pulls out a pair of standard size Fiskars scissors from her luggage. Jaw drop moment. She went through security, full scan, and a pair of scissors made it onto the plane. So, yeah, security theater at its best. BTW, the scissors did not make it through security at the airport in Mexico when returning. BTW, I have also hired Canadian engineers and we've never had problems. You just have to go through the process, hire and attorney and do it right. Which, BTW, is true anywhere in the world.
- creaturemachine 1y ago
  "What are you complaining about? Just be white like me."
  - Slava_Propanei 1y ago
    [dead]
briandear 1y ago
> it has been happening a lot more frequently. Is that factual? Or has the media simply been covering it more due to their bias? International Travelers Processed with Electronic Device Search Fiscal Year Quarter Total Border Searches Conducted FY 24, Q1 10,937 FY24, Q2 11,273 FY24, Q3 12,090 FY24, Q4 12,658 FY25, Q1 12,092 FY25, Q2 12,260 (The U.S. 2024 fiscal year began on September 28, 2023) To understand the scale, in FY25 Q2, there were 88 million entries. So the assertion that 1) electronic searches are statistically meaningful and 2) they are increasing by any significance is just media-fed fear. One ought to consider the UK’s Terrorism Act of 2000 — the police do not even need reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and search a person, their vehicle, or electronic devices. https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop-and-search-under-terrorism-act-2000 https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop... You can also be arrested in the UK for the crime of insulting someone. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp
protocolture 1y ago
As early as the last Trump presidency I was seeing people with good opsec doing the following. 1. Backup your device to the cloud (a different cloud than the default if possible) 2. Erase your device 3. Provide your empty / near empty device for inspection. 4. Load the backup after the airport checks. It might be wise to update this with some basic changes, like creating fake accounts that are auto signed in on your device. Blank twitter account, blank gmail account etc.
- pakigrapeparty 1y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
pimeys 1y ago
Yeah, this worries me a lot. I have a quite tricky Type 1 diabetes, which I can manage well with an artificial pancreas software that's running in my phone. Now if they tamper my phone, or take it completely away when crossing the border, I am in quite a trouble. Especially after a big change in time zones, the health apps really do their job and help me settle in without medial risks in a few days. This is such a risk right now, that me and my American partner decided to not travel to US at all until things change. Too bad we cannot see some of the family in there...

lbrito 1y ago

Given the very real risks involved, can't your employer waive the travel requirement for the next few years?

b112 1y ago
Culture and society are a road, a path. What if the current path means a permanent shift. What if this administration seems friendly compared to the next?

BeetleB 1y ago

Not a lawer, but the ACLU has a page on this: Short FAQ: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement-airports-and-other-ports-entry-us#do-i-have-to-provide-my-laptop-passwords-or-unlock-my-mobile-phone-for-law-enforcement-officers-at-the-border https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter... Dedicated article: https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agents-search-your-electronic https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...

proberts 1y ago
Thank you. This is excellent guidance.
mandeepj 1y ago
from [1]: > Refusal to do so might lead to delay, additional questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection. Then, there's no point in denying device search? [1]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encountering-law-enforcement-airports-and-other-ports-entry-us#do-i-have-to-provide-my-laptop-passwords-or-unlock-my-mobile-phone-for-law-enforcement-officers-at-the-border https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

david422 1y ago

I'm wondering if anyone uses burner phones. I have an old phone, and a second phone number that I got from Tello for $5 a month, intending to use it for a business number, but then never did. It's currently completely detached from anything personal and I figure if I do need to go over the border I could just use that still for any communication and internet access, but personal details would be at a very bare minimum.

AdrianB1 1y ago
Yes. If I will have to go there on a normal visa, I will not take my phone with me, just the SIM card. For the laptop, I don't care at all, it is a company laptop and as long as the company agrees to open it up for the border control, I will, but I will set a clean password upfront that meets the minimum complexity requirements ("UperLower12345#") with no access to anything else. I have long random passwords on all accounts like email or Amazon account, I never type it in because I never know the password, that may be a problem if they ask me - who will believe that the only 2 passwords I ever know are for the company laptop and for my desktop at home in Europe? This is not because I have something to hide, but because I have nothing to show. I don't have Facebook, Twitter or Instagram accounts, don't keep pictures on the phone (family pictures are downloaded on the NAS, I don't take other pictures), so there is nothing to show on a personal level, while the company I work for is a big, old US company and the content of the laptop is theirs, not mine, and it is nothing sensitive that even our business competitors would be interested into. I case I would go there as a tourist, my only luggage would be my motorcycle helmet and a pair of gloves, I would rent a bike, buy a cheap phone with a local number and do road trips around the country. Not even a suitcase, so nothing to show. If they ask me about itinerary, that is a high risk for me because I use to travel across Europe without an itinerary, just a direction, they may not believe me, but old bikers don't go to a destination, they go wherever the road goes.

twosid3dDice 1y ago

Leave gadgets at home. Buy burners here. Access data remotely. Wipe and dump burners before flight home.

proberts 1y ago

The short answer is that CBP has the right to ask to see your electronic devices and you have the right to refuse but if you refuse (and you are not a U.S. green card holder or citizen), CBP likely will deny you admission and send you home.

deadbabe 1y ago
I had a friend who was asked to unlock her phone, and she did, and then… they did nothing. They watched her do it and moved on to the next question. Seems like asking someone to do this is just a good test to see the kind of individual they’re dealing with. It’s not practical to thoroughly search phones at scale and plus they know people can just have burner phones anyway. If you’re cagey and combative they know you’re a problem.
- mrguyorama 1y ago
  It's CBP It's not actually about any form of screening. It's a power trip. Only the dumbest criminal or terrorist would bring an incriminating device across the border and have any need to say "no" to that request. Which, stopping dumb criminals and terrorists is important and valuable and they do exist, but nobody applied to work for CBP in order to check the phones of dumb criminals. They applied because they have strong opinions about certain things.
  - deadbabe 1y ago
    Still, if a dumb criminal or terrorist does slip past you, that just means you’re an even bigger idiot. So might as well ask people to unlock the phone.
    - ulfw 1y ago
      LOL. Yea. Sure. That scales up well with millions of tourists. Madness how this is being normalised now in the US
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

mandeepj 1y ago

> My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection Get a burner phone! Upload your entire data to the cloud as well. Either you can store your phone in the check-in luggage or restore your data once you've arrived at your US location.

rane 1y ago
So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?
- AdrianB1 1y ago
  Don't lie. If you are caught, very nasty things can happen to you.
  - ulfw 1y ago
    Or even better, don't go there in the first place. This is madness. How are you just normalising this?
- mandeepj 1y ago
  > So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone? Carry a cheap burner phone with you, then. Related: KPMG, Deloitte Ask Staff to Use Burner Phones for overseas travel -> https://archive.is/lml0L https://archive.is/lml0L

fucalost 1y ago

For what it’s worth, I recently travelled to the US from the Middle East (into Houston) and was also concerned about this. My solution was to delete apps I didn’t want to be searched (e.g. WhatsApp) after having made a cloud backup, then enabling airplane mode. CBP’s website [1] states: > Prior to beginning a basic or advanced search, CBP Officers will ensure all data and network connections are disabled And no, I wasn’t searched (thankfully!) [1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-search-electronic-devices https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc...

belorn 1y ago

For any electronic device it is advisable to take a complete backup of the unit, store an encrypted version somewhere online, and then restore the device to factory reset. Do not log in to any account that you wouldn't feel perfectly fine giving up in an inspection. They can already hijack any phone number, so the only vulnerability you are giving up by crossing the border is the files, call log/sms, and accounts you bring with you.

robomartin 1y ago

> I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks. I travel internationally all the time. I work with companies in China, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Europe and Latin America. Meaning, I know lots of people who travel internationally with great frequency. I have never heard from anyone having any such problems. Ever. Not during this administration nor others. Stop listening to idiots pushing false narratives. It's fear mongering. Not real. Oddly enough, I have been asked more questions when travelling to Canada (Montreal) over the years than almost anywhere else. Nothing serious, thigs like "Why are you travelling to Canada?", "Where are you staying?", "How long?", "Where do you work?", "What's your website and business email?", "Who are you meeting with?", "What is their contact information?", etc. And, BTW, all of this at the standard entry passport check booth, not a side room. Of course, it feels intrusive when it happens. I look at it as security theater. Just chill and go through the process. Being stupid about this can ruin your trip in any country. Unless you are a diplomat, you are not important enough to bother with. Picking a fight with entry officials in any country will result in bad things happening to you. Don't be that person. To the point about security theater: Last year we travelled to Mexico on vacation. When we got to the hotel we bought a few supplies. A couple of the items were sealed the type of plastic packaging that you cannot possibly open with your bare hands or teeth. I said "I'll go to the front desk and see if they can let me use a pair of scissors". Without missing a beat, my daughter pulls out a pair of standard size Fiskars scissors from her luggage. Jaw drop moment. She went through security, full scan, and a pair of scissors made it onto the plane. So, yeah, security theater at its best. BTW, the scissors did not make it through security at the airport in Mexico when returning. BTW, I have also hired Canadian engineers and we've never had problems. You just have to go through the process, hire and attorney and do it right. Which, BTW, is true anywhere in the world.

creaturemachine 1y ago
"What are you complaining about? Just be white like me."
- Slava_Propanei 1y ago
  [dead]

briandear 1y ago

> it has been happening a lot more frequently. Is that factual? Or has the media simply been covering it more due to their bias? International Travelers Processed with Electronic Device Search Fiscal Year Quarter Total Border Searches Conducted FY 24, Q1 10,937 FY24, Q2 11,273 FY24, Q3 12,090 FY24, Q4 12,658 FY25, Q1 12,092 FY25, Q2 12,260 (The U.S. 2024 fiscal year began on September 28, 2023) To understand the scale, in FY25 Q2, there were 88 million entries. So the assertion that 1) electronic searches are statistically meaningful and 2) they are increasing by any significance is just media-fed fear. One ought to consider the UK’s Terrorism Act of 2000 — the police do not even need reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and search a person, their vehicle, or electronic devices. https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop-and-search-under-terrorism-act-2000 https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop... You can also be arrested in the UK for the crime of insulting someone. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp

protocolture 1y ago

As early as the last Trump presidency I was seeing people with good opsec doing the following. 1. Backup your device to the cloud (a different cloud than the default if possible) 2. Erase your device 3. Provide your empty / near empty device for inspection. 4. Load the backup after the airport checks. It might be wise to update this with some basic changes, like creating fake accounts that are auto signed in on your device. Blank twitter account, blank gmail account etc.

pakigrapeparty 1y ago
[dead]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

pimeys 1y ago

Yeah, this worries me a lot. I have a quite tricky Type 1 diabetes, which I can manage well with an artificial pancreas software that's running in my phone. Now if they tamper my phone, or take it completely away when crossing the border, I am in quite a trouble. Especially after a big change in time zones, the health apps really do their job and help me settle in without medial risks in a few days. This is such a risk right now, that me and my American partner decided to not travel to US at all until things change. Too bad we cannot see some of the family in there...