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There has been a bunch of chatter in Canadian founders whatsapp groups about people getting detained for long periods of time coming into the states either at S
by neom 1y ago
There has been a bunch of chatter in Canadian founders whatsapp groups about people getting detained for long periods of time coming into the states either at SFO or pre-clear in Canada. Are you advising Canadians travel with any additional documentation these days?
- __turbobrew__ 1y agoIm a Canadian and go to the US for work fairly regularly. Something I didn’t realize is that the laws are different in preclearance areas. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-19.32/FullText.html https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-19.32/FullText.ht... For example, you are allowed to withdraw your application to enter the US and leave the preclearance area. Additionally you are bound by different laws for search and siezure. At this point I am only going to the US through preclearance areas because you are still on Canadian soil and bound by Canadian laws. That doesn’t necessarily mean that USBP won’t break those laws, but the Canadian courts get to decide if laws were broken instead of the US courts. One thing I have not found a straight answer on yet is if USBP can compel you to unlock your electronic devices in a preclearance area. My current strategy is if I am asked to do that in preclearance I will withdraw my application to enter because Im not letting anyone access to my phone.
- KerrAvon 1y agoThat’s only the Canada -> US leg, though. They can still grab your phone on the US -> Canada return trip, ne pas?
- klipt 1y agoHistorically the US has not had much "exit control". For example leaving the Schengen area it's obligatory to go through "exit immigration" and get your passport stamped. Leaving the US, you show your passport to the airline, but usually there is no formal immigration check at all.
- the_mitsuhiko 1y agoThat’s because the airline updates your I-94 for you. If they don’t you risk overstaying. There is a website you can use to validate that they did everything correctly.
- raverbashing 1y agoYeah, once upon a time you had to return your actual I-94 stamped to your passport to the airline, but today this is done automatically on the background
- YZF 1y agoThis does not apply to Canadian citizens.
- the_mitsuhiko 1y agoThey changed that.
- gus_massa 1y agoIIRC, [a long time ago?] you MUST give a piece of paper to a guy/gal near the exit, so they remember to mark your exit in the database. I don't think they check too much, just collect the pieces of papers? (I don't remember the details, but if there was a scary warning if you forget to give it and they forget to update the database.)
- tenacious_tuna 1y agoThis is part of the Canadian border control in my experience; i.e. - Arrive in Pearson - go to passport control, scan passport at kiosk, kiosk spits out receipt - you flash receipt to a border officer at the stairs out of passport control - go to baggage claim - get bags - go to customs - hand passport with receipt to officer at customs - welcome to Canada I haven't had that experience when leaving other countries bound for the US; like GP said, I've had to show my passport to the airline to board, but I believe that's to fulfill the requirement that they made good-faith effort to ensure I'm capable of entering the US.
- __turbobrew__ 1y agoSure. Or USBP could just be waiting for you as your flight lands in the US and then immediately detain you. You have no rights in a US airport. I have not ever heard of that happening, but if I did hear about it happening to normal people (i.e. people without a criminal warrant) I would probably stop going to the US.
- returningfory2 1y agonit: USBP (US Border Patrol) is not at the ports of entry. Border Patrol is for the land border _between_ ports of entry. CBP (customs and border protection) is the organization that does immigration control at the ports of entry.
- chollida1 1y agoWhere? Driving across the border from the US back to Canada you don't talk to US border agents. Flying from the US back to Canada you don't talk to US border agents.
- b112 1y agoI am not replying to the i94 side of this, just the "talking to" side. There are massive data sharing agreements between US and Canada customs. US and Canadian sides can pull full criminal records, and a pardon means nothing. Exit data is shared in both directions as well.
- pyreko 1y agoI've crossed a few times between the two via plane since Feb and when exiting the US, they could not care less from my experience. EDIT: I do remember hearing some cases of being searched when leaving through land borders, but that's more of cars being searched for smuggling IIRC?
- jonny_eh 1y agoCan you be block-listed if you withdraw your application to enter?
- __turbobrew__ 1y agoI don’t know what the policy is, but you can be denied entry for any reason
- phire 1y agoThe ESTA form explicitly includes "withdrawn your application for admission", as part of the refused admission question. So it's basically the same, and you will have to apply for a proper visa.
- jonny_eh 1y agoWhat's an ESTA form? I've never encountered one as a Canadian.
- jackweirdy 1y agoCanadian citizens are exempt but this is the program that allows non-visa travel to nationals of certain countries https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/ https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/
- digianarchist 1y agoThis is why I only fly back from Europe via Dublin international.
- fakedang 1y agoAnd from Asia via Abu Dhabi.
- digianarchist 1y agoIt’s shocking to me that Heathrow doesn’t have pre-clearance.
- xer0x 1y agoThank you for mentioning this!
- morpheuskafka 1y agoThat makes sense. The laws about removal creating an entry ban were written before preclearance was a thing. Withdrawal is a think at normal ports to, but since you’re already they, they can force “expedited removal” instead if they want to generate a ban. But preclearance isn’t US territory so removal isn’t applicable.
- proberts 1y agoThere's no question that it's tougher now to get into the U.S., whether from Canada or another country via pre-clearance or via a land crossing, and there can be significant differences among airports and land crossings. Canadians are unique because they are visa exempt and CBP feels particularly emboldened to reassess their admissibility every time they enter. The keys are to avoid bad pre-clearance offices and land crossings and even more importantly to carry the right paperwork, which varies depending on the specific status being sought. There is also a huge difference between seeking entry as a visitor versus seeking entry as a worker with a visa, with the former much more challenging now.
- Hexcles 1y agoCould you give some examples of "bad" pre-clearance offices?
- ridgewell 1y agoThe one that I frequently hear of as a layman (not a lawyer) is Toronto Pearson Airport's Preclearance, which has a very strict and narrow view of the TN Status eligible occupations.
- pyreko 1y agoObviously anecdotal but I've had zero issues with preclearance at Pearson as a TN holder, both crossing and when applying for TN. They usually just ask me some combination of where I work for, what I do, and if I know when my TN expires, and that's it. My experience applying there has also been incredibly uneventful. I guess engineering is a bit easier to do though, especially if you have a strong application that's been done by lawyers. I've been given hell by immigration about my TN when flying directly into US airports though.
- hervature 1y agoConversely, preclearance at Pearson royally screwed up my TN visa after claiming that the other ports of entries were doing it wrong. I have received multiple TN from HOU and, in general, I like the CBP at HOU. EWR was always friendly as well in my opinion. I personally prefer getting my TN at land border crossings because they tend to take the "gather all the facts" approach vs. airports have a procedural approach that feels highly dependent on the agent you get. My most recent TN was I-129 which I think is a waste of money but if someone else is paying for it and you have the luxury of waiting in the US, then it's a seamless experience.
- stainforth 1y ago"Founders" seems like an arbitrary term devised
- jerryseff 1y agoWell yeah, it's because canadian "founders" have a ripe reputation of working in the U.S. while on visitor visas...
- __turbobrew__ 1y agoIf you are a Canadian citizen you don’t need a visa — due to the visa waiver program — for business purposes as long as your stay is less than 90 days. You cannot be employed in the US under these conditions, but as a founder you are most likely doing things which are permitted: * negotiating contracts * business meetings * board meetings * conferences * purchasing property in the US
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]