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The issue is not that people's brain degenerate. Cause the rest of the body is physically degenerating too. And most people would naturally die by the time they

by lwo32k 1y ago

The issue is not that people's brain degenerate. Cause the rest of the body is physically degenerating too. And most people would naturally die by the time they hit retirement age before symptoms of mental decay show up, as was the case before we got modern pharma and surgical procedures. But since we have more fixes for physical degeneration than mental degeneration, we see most sedentary people kept alive through medication and constant surgeries well into their 80s and 90s while there is nothing much to reverse whats happening to the brain. Having worked for a while at a hospital, I feel people who really haven't lead active lives or are just naturally less active or don't like too much activity fall into this trap, where the medical system will keep them physically alive for few decades longer than in the past. They need to be told this could be a trap. Instead we keep them alive, let their brains degenerate and study them like lab rats.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
chneu 1y ago
The book "Exercised" by Lieberman talks about this for a while. Basically, there's been an extension of life years, but there has also been an extension of the useless years at the end of people's lives. He makes a case that these useless years are a direct result of a lack of exercise. Good book. Recommend.
- danielbln 1y ago
  That's something so many people forget. "I don't care about exercise, if I die at 80 then so what" - Ok, but those last years will suck balls as you are trapped on a shell of a body. Quality of life matters almost as much as longevity.
  - Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
    I think about my grandma who basically hasn't had any semblance of quality of life in well over 5 years. At first, about 5 years ago, she struggled to walk. Anything over 30 feet and she had to stop for a couple minutes to catch her breath. At the time, she was refusing to use a walker since she would say "Those are for old people!" as if she wasn't already 80 years old. Of course, when you can't walk, you don't, and so everything gets worse. She eventually accepted that she needed a walker, but by then her knees had degraded so bad that even with it, she could barely move. Getting off the couch is an ordeal that requires two people to lift her up. She got dementia and is now basically bed-bound at a memory care facility. She stopped living and began merely surviving a minimum of 5 years ago, likely closer to 10 years. Personally, I never want to live like that. If I get to the point where I can't do anything, just put a bullet in me or something. I'm not afraid of dying. Until then, I'm hitting the gym 2-4x/week. Every time, at least 1,000 steps on the stair machine or 1.5 miles on a treadmill, plus some weights. I've only been going for about 3 months, hoping to increase my speed and endurance and turn it into 2,000 steps or 3 miles.
    - keybored 1y ago
      My grandpa would hike all the time, ski. Very active except resistance training. And got dementia in his 70’s. Once he stopped going outside for a few years he started to move like he was ten years older. No. I am not saying that exercise is futile. It is as useful as conventional wisdom says. But the whole thread here (except the obligatory “but correlation, or causation?” crowd) seems to have forgotten the topic. Excercise is not enough. You also have to be not-sedentary.
  - Llamamoe 1y ago
    > Quality of life matters almost as much as longevity. Almost? What's the point of living a miserable life full of malaise and pain?
- keybored 1y ago
  Two levels into the comments on the topic of sedentary behavior in itself—time spent sedentary, even if you also exercise—and the whole topic has been memory-holed, replaced with the off-topic point about exercising. The novel point on this topic (relative to mainstream knowledge[1]) is that exercise is not enough. Being non-sedentary (less so) is also important. You should have both as part of your “lifestyle”. [1] Ostensibly this book that you mentioned tells about the benefits of exercise. I suppose that’s still a well-guarded secret?
keybored 1y ago
I don’t get it. The linked article says that sitting for a long time makes the brain shrink, controlling for exercise. You say that everything is degenerating. That’s obviously correct but a red herring, no? We could say that the issue is not lack of exercise for people who age but rather that they age. No, because exercising will help fight against the degeneration. > But since we have more fixes for physical degeneration than mental degeneration, we see most sedentary people kept alive through medication and constant surgeries well into their 80s and 90s while there is nothing much to reverse whats happening to the brain. Doesn’t regular exercise help the brain as well as the rest of the body? The brain is part of the body. Now in addition the OP says that sitting is bad for the brain. Controlling for exercise. > Having worked for a while at a hospital, I feel people who really haven't lead active lives or are just naturally less active or don't like too much activity fall into this trap, where the medical system will keep them physically alive for few decades longer than in the past. They need to be told this could be a trap. Instead we keep them alive, let their brains degenerate and study them like lab rats. Since the article is about sitting and controlling for exercise I’m gonna assume this means sedentary people as in having been sat on their ass a lot. Irrespective of exercise level.

by lwo32k 1y ago

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

chneu 1y ago

The book "Exercised" by Lieberman talks about this for a while. Basically, there's been an extension of life years, but there has also been an extension of the useless years at the end of people's lives. He makes a case that these useless years are a direct result of a lack of exercise. Good book. Recommend.

danielbln 1y ago
That's something so many people forget. "I don't care about exercise, if I die at 80 then so what" - Ok, but those last years will suck balls as you are trapped on a shell of a body. Quality of life matters almost as much as longevity.
- Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
  I think about my grandma who basically hasn't had any semblance of quality of life in well over 5 years. At first, about 5 years ago, she struggled to walk. Anything over 30 feet and she had to stop for a couple minutes to catch her breath. At the time, she was refusing to use a walker since she would say "Those are for old people!" as if she wasn't already 80 years old. Of course, when you can't walk, you don't, and so everything gets worse. She eventually accepted that she needed a walker, but by then her knees had degraded so bad that even with it, she could barely move. Getting off the couch is an ordeal that requires two people to lift her up. She got dementia and is now basically bed-bound at a memory care facility. She stopped living and began merely surviving a minimum of 5 years ago, likely closer to 10 years. Personally, I never want to live like that. If I get to the point where I can't do anything, just put a bullet in me or something. I'm not afraid of dying. Until then, I'm hitting the gym 2-4x/week. Every time, at least 1,000 steps on the stair machine or 1.5 miles on a treadmill, plus some weights. I've only been going for about 3 months, hoping to increase my speed and endurance and turn it into 2,000 steps or 3 miles.
  - keybored 1y ago
    My grandpa would hike all the time, ski. Very active except resistance training. And got dementia in his 70’s. Once he stopped going outside for a few years he started to move like he was ten years older. No. I am not saying that exercise is futile. It is as useful as conventional wisdom says. But the whole thread here (except the obligatory “but correlation, or causation?” crowd) seems to have forgotten the topic. Excercise is not enough. You also have to be not-sedentary.
- Llamamoe 1y ago
  > Quality of life matters almost as much as longevity. Almost? What's the point of living a miserable life full of malaise and pain?
keybored 1y ago
Two levels into the comments on the topic of sedentary behavior in itself—time spent sedentary, even if you also exercise—and the whole topic has been memory-holed, replaced with the off-topic point about exercising. The novel point on this topic (relative to mainstream knowledge[1]) is that exercise is not enough. Being non-sedentary (less so) is also important. You should have both as part of your “lifestyle”. [1] Ostensibly this book that you mentioned tells about the benefits of exercise. I suppose that’s still a well-guarded secret?

keybored 1y ago

I don’t get it. The linked article says that sitting for a long time makes the brain shrink, controlling for exercise. You say that everything is degenerating. That’s obviously correct but a red herring, no? We could say that the issue is not lack of exercise for people who age but rather that they age. No, because exercising will help fight against the degeneration. > But since we have more fixes for physical degeneration than mental degeneration, we see most sedentary people kept alive through medication and constant surgeries well into their 80s and 90s while there is nothing much to reverse whats happening to the brain. Doesn’t regular exercise help the brain as well as the rest of the body? The brain is part of the body. Now in addition the OP says that sitting is bad for the brain. Controlling for exercise. > Having worked for a while at a hospital, I feel people who really haven't lead active lives or are just naturally less active or don't like too much activity fall into this trap, where the medical system will keep them physically alive for few decades longer than in the past. They need to be told this could be a trap. Instead we keep them alive, let their brains degenerate and study them like lab rats. Since the article is about sitting and controlling for exercise I’m gonna assume this means sedentary people as in having been sat on their ass a lot. Irrespective of exercise level.