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Quite amusing to see the word "regime" used so casually and self-righteously. As much as you may dislike Putin, I bet he's got more popular votes than Obama did

Quite amusing to see the word "regime" used so casually and self-righteously. As much as you may dislike Putin, I bet he's got more popular votes than Obama did, just visit an average Russian town 50 miles outside of Moscow and ask around. As a Russian I know first hand things aren't rosy, but they aren't so simplistic and cartoonishly evil as western media and comments on HN portray.

incosta 14y ago
And as a Russian I think you better shut up in this case. Things are'nt rosy for Putin indeed. And they're not as simplistic. I guess to make them simpler he got himself back in the office by rigging the vote and then by beating and arresting those who protest, Kasparov included?
- mladenkovacevic 14y ago
  And can I ask you something as a lover of irony: do you think he should shut up because he doesn't seem to value free-speech as much as you do?
  - incosta 14y ago
    No, because what he said was a lie. And he knows it.
    - old-gregg 14y ago
      > And he knows it. Ahhr... you caught me! I am being paid by the KGB for deliberately spreading misinformation on the Internet, recruit boy scouts into the Komsomol and paint Ulysses Grant's beard in black to make him look like Karl Marx on every $50 bill I get a hold of.
      - incosta 14y ago
        Paid or not, you do know that it's not possible to compare Obama and Putin in terms of popularity. Putin has been covered by all major channels in Russia exclusively for last 12 years, every single day. It's also not possible technically because he made a mockery of the elections process, and even then had to rig the vote. You also know that your claim about his popularity among Russians outside of Moscow is bogus but hardly verifiable to most people on HN: but he's just as disliked there as he is in Moscow. Don't portray Russian people as fools: they are not. And your talk about things not being so simple: how familiar. They are simple, my friend: Putin violated Russia's own laws including the Constitution, when he ran for the 3rd time, and he should not be the president, no matter how big you think his popularity is. He wants to rule forever? He will end up as a dictator. Simple as that.
        1gor 14y ago
        Look, my friend, you cannot deny that Russians overwhelmingly voted for Putin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_2012#Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_... He got 64% of the total vote (45 million people). His closest opponent was a communist with 17%. Now, how much votes did Putin steal? 10%? That would still leave him with twice as much votes as his next opponent. He'd still have the people's mandate. It is quite possible that you do not like the choice of the majority of Russian people. But if you cannot accept result of a democratic election then you should not be making statements about Constitution and the law.
        incosta 14y ago
        Look my friend, a guy in North Korea gets 100% of the vote. And Russia's poor friend Saddam Hussein got 99.9% on the most recent presidential "elections" he held. Putin, after 12 years of ceaseless propaganda should be ashamed to get the miserable 64% (of those rigged) votes. How much he stole does not really matter. He stole the election process itself. And he violated Russia's own Constitution by running for the 3rd time. Just like some of his comrade dictators. His gotcha moment. Welcome to the club! P.S. Calling those "elections" democratic tells the whole story about you. Yes, you. They was nothing democratic about them, my Kremlin paid buddy.
ak217 14y ago
As a Russian, I think you're full of shit. It's not about the votes (officially, Putin got 46 million votes; Obama got 69 million). It's about the harassment, media manipulation, gutting of the judiciary, vote rigging, and now, terror. In the long run, the terror may be something of a good thing: it may hasten Putin's demise. In the short run, he has squandered the last of the opportunities that the Soviet industrial and technological base had given him. And it's not that he always was evil: until 2002, he legitimately did a good job of strengthening the state when it was weak and reeling from Chechnya. But then he never stopped.
- lionheart 14y ago
  Russia's population is a 1/3 of the US. Why would you use the # of votes as an absolute?
  - Steko 14y ago
    Because the person he was replying to framed it that way.
- beambot 14y ago
  It's about the harassment, media manipulation, gutting of the judiciary, vote rigging, and now, terror. I seriously couldn't tell: are you talking about Russia or the US here...?
  - rdtsc 14y ago
    > I seriously couldn't tell: are you talking about Russia or the US here...? Let me answer for him: "Yes"
  - beambot 14y ago
    Not sure about the downvotes... But my point stands: As an American, these seem to be common political tactics here too. If GP doesn't want to compare Putin and Obama on votes, I'd appreciate a point-by-point breakdown along these axes.
maratd 14y ago
Stalin was quite popular as well. What does popularity have to do with respecting basic human rights? No, Putin isn't cartoonishly evil. In reality, he's actually quite nice when compared to the historical norm. Getting the shit beaten out of you or getting a few years in jail is actually kinda mild when you review the last 100 years in the motherland. That's really not the point, anyway. Most of the negativity about Putin comes out from dissapointment. Most in the West actually thought Russia would change and would join the party.
vacri 14y ago
A Russian friend of mine reminds me that the things Putin does to show his manliness (like riding barechested through the woods and going on bear hunts) are just as ridiculous to Russians as they would be to us if our own politicians did the same.
smsm42 14y ago
They are not "cartoonishly" evil. They are really evil. The elections were stolen, and everybody - including in Russia - knows it. Some think it's OK because "Putin is stability" but nobody thinks there is anything like free elections or democracy there. Nobody knows how many popular votes Putin got - exactly because he did not allow to count the votes fairly. But it's not only stealing elections. It's also completely destroying judicial system - again, nobody believes there's such thing as independent judiciary anymore in Russia, it is jailing political opponents, it is stealing millions of dollars from the budget... Yes, things "aren't rosy". But I'd seriously suggest you to wake up and smell the roses, because the real evil is already there. And if history teaches us anything, it'll get much worse before it gets better. Russia has a history of leaders who imprisoned their political opponents. Nothing good came out of it, not once.
- 1gor 14y ago
  Nobody knows how many popular votes Putin got - exactly because he did not allow to count the votes fairly. Not many dispute Putin's personal election results, even the opposition. The parlamentary elections before that -- is another matter, they were substantially rigged in favour of the pro-government party. And let me correct you -- 63% of the Russian voters who have voted for Putin believe that they live under democracy, and are very happy that their votes count and their candidate has won.
  - smsm42 14y ago
    What are you talking about - of course many dispute it! There were mass protests about the election results, and multiple proven cases of fraud - which, of course, were never prosecuted due to absence of independent judiciary. Again, quoting official results in obviously and proven rigged elections as evidence of "voters who have voted for Putin" is just disingenuous - do you really believe anybody would be swayed by the argument "Putin won elections because Putin says so"? Also, the democracy is not only when majority wins. It is also when the rights of everybody are respected. Even if Putin had won the majority vote - which we do not know since there was no free and fair election - it would not absolve him from responsibility to preserve the rights of every citizen - including those who oppose him. That is clearly not happening.

incosta 14y ago

And as a Russian I think you better shut up in this case. Things are'nt rosy for Putin indeed. And they're not as simplistic. I guess to make them simpler he got himself back in the office by rigging the vote and then by beating and arresting those who protest, Kasparov included?

mladenkovacevic 14y ago
And can I ask you something as a lover of irony: do you think he should shut up because he doesn't seem to value free-speech as much as you do?
- incosta 14y ago
  No, because what he said was a lie. And he knows it.
  - old-gregg 14y ago
    > And he knows it. Ahhr... you caught me! I am being paid by the KGB for deliberately spreading misinformation on the Internet, recruit boy scouts into the Komsomol and paint Ulysses Grant's beard in black to make him look like Karl Marx on every $50 bill I get a hold of.
    - incosta 14y ago
      Paid or not, you do know that it's not possible to compare Obama and Putin in terms of popularity. Putin has been covered by all major channels in Russia exclusively for last 12 years, every single day. It's also not possible technically because he made a mockery of the elections process, and even then had to rig the vote. You also know that your claim about his popularity among Russians outside of Moscow is bogus but hardly verifiable to most people on HN: but he's just as disliked there as he is in Moscow. Don't portray Russian people as fools: they are not. And your talk about things not being so simple: how familiar. They are simple, my friend: Putin violated Russia's own laws including the Constitution, when he ran for the 3rd time, and he should not be the president, no matter how big you think his popularity is. He wants to rule forever? He will end up as a dictator. Simple as that.
      - 1gor 14y ago
        Look, my friend, you cannot deny that Russians overwhelmingly voted for Putin. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_2012#Results http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_presidential_election,_... He got 64% of the total vote (45 million people). His closest opponent was a communist with 17%. Now, how much votes did Putin steal? 10%? That would still leave him with twice as much votes as his next opponent. He'd still have the people's mandate. It is quite possible that you do not like the choice of the majority of Russian people. But if you cannot accept result of a democratic election then you should not be making statements about Constitution and the law.
        incosta 14y ago
        Look my friend, a guy in North Korea gets 100% of the vote. And Russia's poor friend Saddam Hussein got 99.9% on the most recent presidential "elections" he held. Putin, after 12 years of ceaseless propaganda should be ashamed to get the miserable 64% (of those rigged) votes. How much he stole does not really matter. He stole the election process itself. And he violated Russia's own Constitution by running for the 3rd time. Just like some of his comrade dictators. His gotcha moment. Welcome to the club! P.S. Calling those "elections" democratic tells the whole story about you. Yes, you. They was nothing democratic about them, my Kremlin paid buddy.

ak217 14y ago

As a Russian, I think you're full of shit. It's not about the votes (officially, Putin got 46 million votes; Obama got 69 million). It's about the harassment, media manipulation, gutting of the judiciary, vote rigging, and now, terror. In the long run, the terror may be something of a good thing: it may hasten Putin's demise. In the short run, he has squandered the last of the opportunities that the Soviet industrial and technological base had given him. And it's not that he always was evil: until 2002, he legitimately did a good job of strengthening the state when it was weak and reeling from Chechnya. But then he never stopped.

lionheart 14y ago
Russia's population is a 1/3 of the US. Why would you use the # of votes as an absolute?
- Steko 14y ago
  Because the person he was replying to framed it that way.
beambot 14y ago
It's about the harassment, media manipulation, gutting of the judiciary, vote rigging, and now, terror. I seriously couldn't tell: are you talking about Russia or the US here...?
- rdtsc 14y ago
  > I seriously couldn't tell: are you talking about Russia or the US here...? Let me answer for him: "Yes"
- beambot 14y ago
  Not sure about the downvotes... But my point stands: As an American, these seem to be common political tactics here too. If GP doesn't want to compare Putin and Obama on votes, I'd appreciate a point-by-point breakdown along these axes.

maratd 14y ago

Stalin was quite popular as well. What does popularity have to do with respecting basic human rights? No, Putin isn't cartoonishly evil. In reality, he's actually quite nice when compared to the historical norm. Getting the shit beaten out of you or getting a few years in jail is actually kinda mild when you review the last 100 years in the motherland. That's really not the point, anyway. Most of the negativity about Putin comes out from dissapointment. Most in the West actually thought Russia would change and would join the party.

vacri 14y ago

A Russian friend of mine reminds me that the things Putin does to show his manliness (like riding barechested through the woods and going on bear hunts) are just as ridiculous to Russians as they would be to us if our own politicians did the same.

smsm42 14y ago

They are not "cartoonishly" evil. They are really evil. The elections were stolen, and everybody - including in Russia - knows it. Some think it's OK because "Putin is stability" but nobody thinks there is anything like free elections or democracy there. Nobody knows how many popular votes Putin got - exactly because he did not allow to count the votes fairly. But it's not only stealing elections. It's also completely destroying judicial system - again, nobody believes there's such thing as independent judiciary anymore in Russia, it is jailing political opponents, it is stealing millions of dollars from the budget... Yes, things "aren't rosy". But I'd seriously suggest you to wake up and smell the roses, because the real evil is already there. And if history teaches us anything, it'll get much worse before it gets better. Russia has a history of leaders who imprisoned their political opponents. Nothing good came out of it, not once.

1gor 14y ago
Nobody knows how many popular votes Putin got - exactly because he did not allow to count the votes fairly. Not many dispute Putin's personal election results, even the opposition. The parlamentary elections before that -- is another matter, they were substantially rigged in favour of the pro-government party. And let me correct you -- 63% of the Russian voters who have voted for Putin believe that they live under democracy, and are very happy that their votes count and their candidate has won.
- smsm42 14y ago
  What are you talking about - of course many dispute it! There were mass protests about the election results, and multiple proven cases of fraud - which, of course, were never prosecuted due to absence of independent judiciary. Again, quoting official results in obviously and proven rigged elections as evidence of "voters who have voted for Putin" is just disingenuous - do you really believe anybody would be swayed by the argument "Putin won elections because Putin says so"? Also, the democracy is not only when majority wins. It is also when the rights of everybody are respected. Even if Putin had won the majority vote - which we do not know since there was no free and fair election - it would not absolve him from responsibility to preserve the rights of every citizen - including those who oppose him. That is clearly not happening.