17 ms·

I can be frustrating at times. but my experience is the more you try the better you become at knowing what to ask and to expect. But I guess you understand now

• the_af 1y ago
  "Overrated" is one way to call it. Giving sharp knives to monkeys would be another.
  • baq 1y ago
    Vibe coding has a vibe component and a coding component. Take away the coding and you’re only left with vibe. Don’t confuse the two. Saying that as I’ve got vibe coded react internal tooling used in production without issues, saved days of work easily.
    • the_af 1y ago
      > Don’t confuse the two. Vibe coding as was explained by the popularizer of the term involves no coding. You just paste error messages, paste the response of the LLM, paste the error messages back, paste the response, and pray that after several iterations the thing converges to a result. It involves NOT looking at either the LLM output or the error messages. Maybe you're using a different definition?
      • baq 1y ago
        A case can be made that it involves an experienced coder to be vibe coding, as the author of the term most definitely is and I feel this context is at the very least being conveniently omitted at times. Whether he was truly not doing anything at all or glanced at 1% of generated code to check if the model isn't getting lost is important, as is being able to know what to ask the model for. Horror stories from newbies launching businesses and getting their data stolen because they trust models are to be expected, but I would not call them vibe coding horror stories, since there is no coding involved even by proxy, it's copy pasting on steroids. Blind copy pasting from stack overflow was not coding for me back then either. (A minute of silence for SO here. RIP.)
        • the_af 1y ago
          The problem with this discussion is that different interlocutors have different opinions of what vibe coding really means. For example, another person in this thread argues: > I'd rather give my green or clueless or junior or inexperienced devs said knives than having them throw spaghetti on a wall for days on end, only to have them still ask a senior to help or do the work for them anyways. So they are clearly not talking about experienced coders. They are also completely disregarding the learning experience any junior coder must go through in order to become an experienced coder. This is clearly not what you're arguing though. So which "vibe coding" are we discussing? I know which one I meant when I spoke of monkeys and sharp knives...
          • baq 1y ago
            I mean it very literally, taking the what he said together with who is the person who said it - an experienced professional sculpting a solution using a very complex set of tools, with a clear idea in his head, but with unusual and slightly uncomfortable disinterest in the exact details of how the final product looks from the inside.
            • the_af 1y ago
              I'm mostly going by what he said: https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383 https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383 He seems to think it barely involves coding ("I don't read the diffs anymore, I Accept All [...] It's not really coding"), and that it's only good for goofing and throwaway code...
  • lnenad 1y ago
    Why do people keep thinking they're intellectually superior when negatively evaluating something that is OBVIOUSLY working for a very large percentage of people?
    • guappa 1y ago
      Because the large percentage of people is a few people doing hello words or things of similar difficulty. Not every software developer is hired to do trivial frontend work.
      • FeepingCreature 1y ago
        The large percentage of software development is people doing hello world or similar difficulty. "CRUD apps," remember?
        • the_af 1y ago
          Hopefully they are not live-coding that crap though. Do you want to make those apps even more unreliable than they already are, and encourage devs not to learn any lessons (as vibe coding prescribes)?
      • lnenad 1y ago
        Sure, you keep telling that to yourself.
        • guappa 1y ago
          It seems to me that you're unable to understand that not everyone is a copy of you and they might have different life experiences. This is a very important flaw that you should probably seek to correct.
    • 80hd 1y ago
      I've been asking myself this since AI started to become useful. Most people would guess it threatens their identity. Sensitive intellectuals who found a way to feel safe by acquiring deep domain-specific expertise suddenly feel vulnerable. In addition, a programmer's job, on the whole, has always been something like modelling the world in a predictable way so as to minimise surprise. When things change at this rate/scale, it also goes against deep rooted feelings about the way things should work (they shouldn't change!) Change forces all of us to continually adapt and to not rest on our laurels. Laziness is totally understandable, as is the resulting anger, but there's no running away from entropy :}
  • zo1 1y ago
    I'd rather give my green or clueless or junior or inexperienced devs said knives than having them throw spaghetti on a wall for days on end, only to have them still ask a senior to help or do the work for them anyways.
    • guappa 1y ago
      I'm sure you'd think differently after constant production outages.
    • jrh3 1y ago
      It's somewhere in between. Said struggle is where they learn. Guidance from seniors is important, but they need to figure it out to grow.
    • the_af 1y ago
      How will they ever learn if all the do is copy-paste things without any real understanding, as prescribed by vibe coding?
      • zo1 1y ago
        I'm not advocating for vibe coding, that's new-age hipster talk. But just using the AI for help, assistance, and doing grunt work is where we have to go as an industry.