8 ms·
Harvard Law paid $27 for a copy of Magna Carta. It's an original
- davikr 1y ago$450 when corrected for inflation.
- tim333 1y agoIn 1945 they had the gold standard at $35/oz so $27.50 would have been 0.7857 oz of gold currently worth $2540.
- standeven 1y agoIs this a reasonable metric though? No one was buying books in 1945 with gold.
- koolba 1y agoIf I were selling books in Europe in 1945, I’d much prefer gold to Reichsmarks.
- killingtime74 1y agoIt's a better metric than the estimate of the dollar inflation. Gold standard was in use until 1971
- jonhohle 1y agoGold is considered to have relatively consistent value over time. Median home price in 1940 Boston area was $3,600 or 180oz gold. Today the median home price is 215oz of gold in the same area (or $670,000). In terms of gold, house prices are up 20%. In terms of dollars, 18000%. A new car still costs around 13oz of gold. Real inflation of fiat is easy to obscure for political reasons. That’s much harder to do with the market value of gold.
- Aurornis 1y ago> Gold is considered to have relatively consistent value over time. Not really. It has fluctuated a lot. You can pick starting and ending points a few years apart and come up with very different results relative to actual inflation. > A new car still costs around 13oz of gold. Now take this idea and average it across a large number of different items and you arrive at inflation statistics, which are better than using 1 commodity or 1 purchasable item as a benchmark.
- thatcat 1y agoUsing core, required assets actually makes more sense considering recurring purchases tend to change over time.
- boroboro4 1y ago> Now take this idea and average it across a large number of different items and you arrive at inflation statistics If only it was as simple: you will need to introduce weights between different items, and account to the change of those weights too. Also gold isn't just commodity, it's monetary commodity. If you use official inflation dollars you get 1$ 1940 ~= 23$ 2025. You can see how magnitude wrong it is for housing or cars in the example above. Here's food prices from 1940 diner: > A 25-cent platter, 5-cent hotdog, and 10-cent hamburger. Also doesn't really work with official inflation dollars either. And again works much better with gold prices.
- kemotep 1y agoMedian household income in the 1940’s seems to be something like $2,600. Using your inflation figure that is ~$59800 in today’s dollars. 2024 there seems to be an estimated ~$75,000 median household income. Housing and cars are also apples and oranges seeing that the average family size and sq footage for even 50’s homes is completely different than today. Today fewer people are living in significantly larger spaces than was normal back then.
- b112 1y ago
- AtlasBarfed 1y agodesilvering of coins was in the 1965 coin act. So if they paid in dimes/quarters/ half dollars /dollars, they were paying in silver
- hilsdev 1y agoAll cash was convertible to gold at a fixed rate, so more or less they were
- jltsiren 1y agoIn 1945, US GDP per capita was almost $1600. Using your conversion factors, that would be almost $150k today. The actual number is something like $85k. I don't think Americans are that much poorer today than they were 80 years ago.
- hilsdev 1y agoYou’re starting to get into the theories of how they hide true inflation
- rileytg 1y agoi’m american, what’s the price in big macs?
- qingcharles 1y agoFour myocardial infarctions.
- rat87 1y agoPoe's law strikes again. Is this supposed to be a parody of goldbugs or do you seriously think Americans were that much richer in 1945? Without a wink we don't know
- anshumankmr 1y ago1945 is the year 5 AMC (After McDonalds)
- andrei_says_ 1y agoHow is GDP per capita a useful measure in the presence of almost-trillionaires? Depending on which city they sleep in, Bezos or Musk make all local citizens multimillionaires. Per capita. Statistically.
- actionfromafar 1y agoThis is very true. One should look at some select percentiles instead, IMHO.
- ajross 1y agoGold is volatile. Two years ago it would have been half that.
- voxic11 1y agoIn 1945 US citizens were banned from owning gold so the exchange rate was not really tethered to the common value of the dollar.
- toomuchtodo 1y agohttps://archive.today/DOZw1 https://archive.today/DOZw1
- perihelions 1y agoIt may be that Harvard students no longer habeant corpus, but they do habent a corpus of "habeas corpus" corpses.
- spondylosaurus 1y agoI haven't Latin'd in forever, but here's an attempt: Harvardis alumnis corpus non habent sed quidem corpus de "habeas corpus" habent. (Let's just say "Harvard" is a third declension noun because why not.)
- tootie 1y agoVeritas
- skirmish 1y agoDid you mean: Veritas socialis?
- kevin_thibedeau 1y agoPig Latin would be more fitting for the current climate.
- fsckboy 1y agoorcuspæ atinuslæ
- skissane 1y ago> Let's just say "Harvard" is a third declension noun because why not. Given Harvard maintains the tradition of Latin addresses (the Latin Salutatory), I’m sure they have an official position on what their name is in Latin. Wikipedia cites this article but not sure if it is online: Hammond, Mason (Summer 1987). "Official Terms in Latin and English for Harvard College or University". Harvard Library bulletin. Vol. XXXV, no. 3. Harvard University. pp. 294–310. I spent a year as a student at the University of Sydney (Australia). I roughly remember how to say in Latin “University of Sydney Library”, because they stamped it on all their old library books (something like “Bibliotheca Universitatis Sidneiensis”)-I expect old books in Harvard’s library may be stamped in Latin too
- ChrisArchitect 1y agoMagna Carta, approximately 1300. Manuscript. HLS MS 172, Harvard Law School Library https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:49364859$1i https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:49364859$1i
- Aurornis 1y ago[dead]
- thrdbndndn 1y agoCan't see anything other than a black screen. Using newest Chrome without extension (guest profile): https://i.imgur.com/DgLgUib.png https://i.imgur.com/DgLgUib.png
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- RunningDroid 1y agoWorks for me on Firefox Mobile w/ Ublock origin: https://i.imgur.com/8UAuXiu.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/8UAuXiu.jpeg
- oldpersonintx 1y ago[dead]
- anthk 1y agoMagna Carta reminds me of the "Seven parts" from Alphonse X of Castille, nearly in the same era. Also, for its day, it was kinda open-minded and progressive, and Alphonse X was a damn nerd as he ordered to compose a book of games like chess and more tabletop games like Nine Men Morris (Libro de los juegos/The Book of Games).
- dralley 1y agoIt's not an original so much as an official copy. The copies, dated 1300, were created 85 years after the signing of the original Magna Carta in 1215. Although I suppose the argument is that if you re-affirm the same text several times, that each one is legitimate. >First issued in 1215, it put into writing a set of concessions won by rebellious barons from a recalcitrant King John of England — or Bad King John, as he became known in folklore. >He later revoked the charter, but his son, Henry III, issued amended versions, the last one in 1225, and Henry’s son, Edward I, in turn confirmed the 1225 version in 1297 and again in 1300. But still, it would be weird to say that a copy of the Constitution produced during the Presidency of Abraham Lincoln and re-affirmed by the govt was "an original" even if it otherwise had pedigree.
- jvanderbot 1y ago"Original copy?"
- dvh 1y ago"genuine replica"
- metalman 1y agowhatever, umm, "sanctioned forgery" but exactly how is it a "copy", as the Magna Carta was hand written, with 4 signed copys still in existance today. the item under discussion was created 85 years after the magna carta, and presumably, everyone who was involved with the original, was dead so this thing is just old, but has no direct connection, it's even listed as an "amended version" of the actual original document, which means of course that some ancient controversy and disagreement, is lurking for our perusal and picking sides
- hughdbrown 1y agoCame here to understand exactly this point. It made no sense to me that a document created in 1215 would have a copy made in 1300 that was referred to as an original.
- huijzer 1y agoYeah Harvard is doing good stuff. I also love listening to Stephen Kotkin. He uses the Socratic method a lot so he just goes a bit from here to there and lets you make up your own mind. Really great historian if you ask me. Very calming to listen to too IMO.
- queuebert 1y agoCopies of the Magna Carta are becoming unaffordable for working-class families.
- varispeed 1y agoWorking-class families should work just a little bit harder and maybe cut down on avocados and Netflix.
- vondur 1y agoLook, we aren’t barbarians here.
- dylan604 1y agoThe sad thing is, cutting down on the streamers does make an actual dent in outgo. Each platform is at least $9USD, and subscribing to them all at this point is easily $100/month. Obviously, some are higher than $9, but cutting the cord to save money tends to come out higher than the dreaded cable bill. Avacodos be damned
- PaulHoule 1y agoReminds me of that time I found a book at my Uni library that was in the rare books collection that I could only read in the reading room and then saw there were many copies on AMZN for 50 cents + shipping.
- standeven 1y agoWas the university exaggerating the value, or did you pick up some valuable books for cheap?
- dleary 1y agoIf a work is older than 200 years and worth reading, then original editions are going to be valuable. But it will also be out of copyright so the cost of getting a “new” copy is basically just the cost of printing.
- asciimov 1y agoLikely a different edition, or reproduction.
- PaulHoule 1y agoThis was a 1970s paperback by someone who attracted attention for his work on spiritual matters and sold a lot of books but didn't leave an organization behind so you can find his books at used bookstores. https://www.amazon.com/Discovering-Secrets-Happiness-Intimate-Story/dp/0915972158 https://www.amazon.com/Discovering-Secrets-Happiness-Intimat... Not rare at all but some people might say it has some prurient interest (talks about his sexual misadjustment) so maybe they think it has to be limited access or maybe people will steal it or something. (The same library kept Steal this book in a restricted area of the stacks but let me check it out.)
- tomjakubowski 1y agoWhen a librarian says a book is rare, they don't mean that the information inside is scarce. Rather, they mean that there are few surviving examples of that particular printing or edition of manufacture.
- alephnerd 1y agoIf you ever have the chance, you absolutely should visit the libraries and museums on campus. It's a treat. I especially loved walking around Widener Library and marveling at the murals and that original Guteberg Bible
- soperj 1y agoI tried going in, but couldn't without a student id.
- alephnerd 1y agoAh yea, security has gotten much tougher now. There are a couple open-access museums though like the Art Museum, the Near East Museum, the Scientific Instruments one in the Science Building, and a couple others. All in all, loved the museums and history, but detested Harvard. I would have been a better fit at a more middle class college like Cal, Stanford, or MIT.
- qingcharles 1y agoCan a student take you in as a +1?
- soperj 1y agoNope, that's what I tried. This was just over a decade ago.
- throwaway2037 1y agoI am surprised that a Harvard student ID was required. A long time ago, in the US, all university libraries were open the public. It was a requirement to receive federal funding. Perhaps this has changed, or Harvard forgoes federal funding for certain libraries in order to keep them more restricted. (Does anyone know the full story in 2025?) I found a visitor access page here: https://library.harvard.edu/visitor-access https://library.harvard.edu/visitor-access If you want to see something special, like the Magna Carta, I am sure you can send an email to the special collections supervisor. They would probably be more than happy to grant you one day entry. Related: Digitising the Magna Carta: https://hls.harvard.edu/today/magna-carta-making-history-available-to-the-world/ https://hls.harvard.edu/today/magna-carta-making-history-ava... Collection of manuscript Magna Cartas and early English statutes, ca. 1300-1577: https://listview.lib.harvard.edu/lists/hollis-014294028 https://listview.lib.harvard.edu/lists/hollis-014294028 Magna Carta, approximately 1300. Manuscript. HLS MS 172, Harvard Law School Library: https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:49364859$1i https://iiif.lib.harvard.edu/manifests/view/drs:49364859$1i
- sirmoveon 1y agoAre we as a society have become that gullible? Seems more like someone's trying to find a somewhat credible excuse to launder the stolen goods.
- llm_nerd 1y ago>>Harvard Law School bought its version from a London legal book dealer, Sweet & Maxwell, which had in turn purchased the manuscript in December 1945 from Sotheby’s, the auctioneers. >>In the 1945 auction catalog it was listed as a copy and with the wrong date (1327) and was sold for £42 — about a fifth of the average annual income in the United Kingdom at the time — on behalf of Forster Maynard, an Air Vice-Marshal who had served as a fighter pilot in World War I. >>Air Vice-Marshal Maynard inherited it from the family of Thomas and John Clarkson, who were leading campaigners in Britain against the slave trade from the 1780s onward. Pretty convoluted path to launder stolen goods.
- jb1991 1y agoAmazingly, the woman in one photo is not even using gloves to touch this ancient document.
- dmbche 1y agoBest practices today are clean hands and no gloves as it lessens chance of tearing paper as you have better dexterity if I recall correctly
- syncsynchalt 1y agoNot to mention that vellum isn't damaged by skin oils - it's already animal skin and contains its own oils.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- pimlottc 1y agoModern practice recommends using clean, ungloved hands for documents in most circumstances. Gloves reduce dexterity, making tears more likely. https://ask.loc.gov/preservation/faq/337286 https://ask.loc.gov/preservation/faq/337286 https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/handling-historic-collections-the-gloves-are-still-off/ https://blog.nationalarchives.gov.uk/handling-historic-colle... https://info.gaylord.com/resources/for-the-glove-of-preservation https://info.gaylord.com/resources/for-the-glove-of-preserva...
- qingcharles 1y agoThis. But anything glossy I would always switch to gloves, even though they are annoying, because otherwise oils get everywhere.
- thih9 1y agoThis is the recommended way to handle old books. > We're often led to believe that wearing gloves is essential when handling precious books. In fact, it poses a serious risk of damaging them. https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/our-cause/history-heritage/wearing-gloves-damage-rare-old-books https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/our-cause/history-heritage/...
- heelix 1y agoSaw some of the examples on holiday last month when we were in Salisbury. It was really neat to be that close to one of the ones sent out. Before that time, I'd never actually read the Magna Carta, which really was an interesting read.
- burnt-resistor 1y agoEzra Klein would sneer at the red tape regulations imposed by a limited monarchy because they "know better" than us plebs how to wield absolute power properly. /s
- pinoy420 1y ago[dead]
- willmeyers 1y agoWhen I visited London a few years ago I went to the British Library and stumbled into their collection (and it was incredibly impressive). I had no idea they had two original Magna Cartas. If you have a chance to see the document at Harvard, you should! It's really something.
- inopinatus 1y agoFun fact, there's an inconsistent comma that changes the meaning of clause XXIX.
- metabeard 1y agoThis comment is the first result when searching "inconsistent comma clause 29 magna carta" on Google. Can you link to a source?
- inopinatus 1y agohttps://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9/section/XXIX https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9/section/X... now compare https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Magna_Carta_%281297_version%2C_Parliament_House%2C_Canberra%2C_Australia%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Magna_Ca... to https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Magna_Carta_%281297_version_with_seal%2C_owned_by_David_M_Rubenstein%29.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Magna_Ca... There's a smudge. Of law
- adonovan 1y agoThe fourth (and best preserved of all) Magna Cartas is on display in the Chapter House of the cathedral in Salisbury.
- dwd 1y agoThe Harvard document is a copy of Edward I's 1297 Great Charter that is still partly in force today. There were earlier versions of the Magna Carta; originally authored by Stephen Langton, Archbishop of Canterbury in 1215, rejected, revised and eventually reissued and negotiated (largely by force) by William Marshal, 1st Earl of Pembroke in 1217. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/magna-carta/british-library-magna-carta-1215-runnymede/ https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/magn...
- highfrequency 1y agoThe magic of compound interest: buying an original Magna Carta for $27 and selling it for $21 million 80 years later is equivalent to achieving 18.5% compound interest. Roughly the same rate and duration as Warren Buffett's investing career, with a smaller starting value.
- syncsynchalt 1y agoUnfortunately gains are only real if they're realized — and Harvard will never sell their copy.
- mmooss 1y agoThey could use it as collateral for debt.
- peapicker 1y agoThen again, Harvard has a 53 billion dollar endowment so it probably wouldn't be necessary.
- isubkhankulov 1y agoA good chunk of that is illiquid because it is capital invested in funds that may or may not be priced/valued accurately. And Harvard has $7-8B in outstanding debt. If there’s a severe recession or crisis, it’s not clear that Harvard will sail smoothly through it without some turbulence. Though i’m not implying they would sell some these priceless assets.
- LordGrignard 1y agowith how trump vs Harvard its going, don't put away your millions yet. you might be able to buy it!
- arrowsmith 1y agoHence why taxing "unrealised capital gains", as was floated during a recent election, is preposterous.
- fastglass 1y agoit appears 27$ for a copy in any economy is an astronomical amount
- FridayoLeary 1y agoIt would have looked like an extremely old, handwritten copy.
- A_Duck 1y agoAnd it's still an active legal document You can see it in the UK legislation portal — the parts which are still in force https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/aep/Edw1cc1929/25/9
- dave333 1y agoMy UK high school sold a 1297 version of Magna Carta to the Australian Government in 1952 for 12500 pounds.
- ikerrin1 1y agoThat is just such a Harvard thing to do. Harvard: Sorry we can’t give you a discount in our outrageous tuition; yes I know how big our endowment is. Also Harvard: Will you take $27 for this priceless artifact?
- blero 1y agoInteresting you say that since last year they started waiving tuition and giving room and board aid for those with family income ≤$200,000.
- pyuser583 1y agoYeah so if the parents are two mid-level software engineers, then what? I’ve been pricing out elite institutions for my spawn. They ramp up pretty fast, assuming you can get In all fairness, the “great colleges” have tons of competition. Normal colleges have excellent outcomes. In terms of research, they earn their reputations. But that means undergraduates can be a second-thought. Even the wealthy have no compunctions about sending their kids to Bard or Claremont McKenna.