3 ms·

A library of words: Discovering Roget's Thesaurus (2023)

48 points by NaOH 1y ago

5- 1y ago
the cambridge dictionary thesaurus has a similar organisation and i always thought it was a unique quirk (further promulgated by the mobile version calling it "smart thesaurus"). https://dictionary.cambridge.org/thesaurus/articles/difference https://dictionary.cambridge.org/thesaurus/articles/differen...
ttctciyf 1y ago
The author notes: > since around 1962, publishers have abandoned the side-by-side layout of opposing categories which Roget insisted on as a visual representation of the opposing ideas illustrated by the original's side-by-side entries for 615 Good and 616 Evil, seeing this as an unfortunate > example of one of the many ways book design is actually getting less sophisticated over time. It appears the Gutenberg project also see value in preserving the two columns, at least in their html edition, as can be seen in their rendition of the same passages: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.html#link619N https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.ht.... (Link is to a 10M html file). (Though it seems things have moved on, since Evil is now #619.) Surely there must be more programmatic electronic editions, though, given the highly tractable organisation of the book?
- WillAdams 1y ago
  I believe the "Wordweb" program had something along those lines --- at least I seem to remember it being easy to click through a word, through synonyms, and also review antonyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordWeb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordWeb
folex 1y ago
Where does the stereotype 'thesaurus = synonyms + antonyms' come from? I'm not a native english speaker, and I never heard that idea besides in, I'd guess, Friends TV show. I've used thesauruses since my childhood for exactly the task of looking up meanings, explanations, perhaps some etymology baked in. For English, I always use WordNet, it is quite good and works offline on Android. For my basic level of Chinese, Outliers dictionaries are so far the best I have found, but that's mainly due to my heavy reliance on the etymology provided there. Well, I guess I got carried away a bit. Back to my question, where thesaurus=synonyms+antonyms comes from?
- esafak 1y ago
  From the writer's need to find a more suitable word than the ones he knows.
- svat 1y ago
  The usage of "thesaurus" in English for a kind of book dates back to the first one by Peter Mark Roget in 1852, which was indeed synonyms and antonyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roget%27s_Thesaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roget%27s_Thesaurus see the Project Gutenberg link mentioned in another comment: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.html#link619N https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.ht... (or indeed, just read the posted article here). This is still the primary meaning of "thesaurus" in English, and contrasted with "dictionary": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesaurus It's very unusual for a thesaurus to contain meanings (beyond the category head/name) and etymology, let alone explanation. Such things are usually found in a dictionary instead. So it's more a question for you: where did your unusual idea of "thesaurus" come from? As one of your examples you mention dictionaries, so that's especially confusing.
  - opello 1y ago
    I'd assume from the earlier meaning of "thesaurus" which comes from "treasury," or as it exists in my mind, treasure chest. > The meaning "encyclopedia filled with information" is from 1840, but it existed earlier as thesaurarie (1590s), used as a title by some early dictionary compilers, on the notion of thesaurus verborum "a treasury of words." The meaning "collection of words arranged according to sense" is attested from 1852 in Roget's title. from: https://www.etymonline.com/word/thesaurus https://www.etymonline.com/word/thesaurus
  - mmooss 1y ago
    The word comes from Greek, θησαυρός - "a store, treasure, storehouse, treasury". > The usage of "thesaurus" in English for a kind of book dates back to the first one by Peter Mark Roget in 1852 To nitpick, though of interest: The usage meaning a book of words organized by their senses indeed dates to Roget's use in 1852, as the parent comment says. An earlier usage is more generally a 'treasury' of knowledge (in book form): there was a Thesaurus Linguæ Romanæ et Britannicæ ... in 1565, a Thesaurus Linguæ Latinæ compendiarius ... in 1736, and John Stuart Mill in 1840 wrote about "A thesaurus of commonplaces for the discussion of questions." Source: Oxford English Dictionary
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
MichaelMoser123 1y ago
I once had a python side project, it parses the 1911 edition of Roget Thesaurus into memory and provides some queries. https://github.com/MoserMichael/roget-thesaurus-parser https://github.com/MoserMichael/roget-thesaurus-parser
Michelangelo11 1y ago
Interesting. So, a kind of precursor to LLMs, or if you like, a pre-electronic, pen-and-paper latent space.

48 points by NaOH 1y ago

5- 1y ago

the cambridge dictionary thesaurus has a similar organisation and i always thought it was a unique quirk (further promulgated by the mobile version calling it "smart thesaurus"). https://dictionary.cambridge.org/thesaurus/articles/difference https://dictionary.cambridge.org/thesaurus/articles/differen...

ttctciyf 1y ago

The author notes: > since around 1962, publishers have abandoned the side-by-side layout of opposing categories which Roget insisted on as a visual representation of the opposing ideas illustrated by the original's side-by-side entries for 615 Good and 616 Evil, seeing this as an unfortunate > example of one of the many ways book design is actually getting less sophisticated over time. It appears the Gutenberg project also see value in preserving the two columns, at least in their html edition, as can be seen in their rendition of the same passages: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.html#link619N https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.ht.... (Link is to a 10M html file). (Though it seems things have moved on, since Evil is now #619.) Surely there must be more programmatic electronic editions, though, given the highly tractable organisation of the book?

WillAdams 1y ago
I believe the "Wordweb" program had something along those lines --- at least I seem to remember it being easy to click through a word, through synonyms, and also review antonyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordWeb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WordWeb

folex 1y ago

Where does the stereotype 'thesaurus = synonyms + antonyms' come from? I'm not a native english speaker, and I never heard that idea besides in, I'd guess, Friends TV show. I've used thesauruses since my childhood for exactly the task of looking up meanings, explanations, perhaps some etymology baked in. For English, I always use WordNet, it is quite good and works offline on Android. For my basic level of Chinese, Outliers dictionaries are so far the best I have found, but that's mainly due to my heavy reliance on the etymology provided there. Well, I guess I got carried away a bit. Back to my question, where thesaurus=synonyms+antonyms comes from?

esafak 1y ago
From the writer's need to find a more suitable word than the ones he knows.
svat 1y ago
The usage of "thesaurus" in English for a kind of book dates back to the first one by Peter Mark Roget in 1852, which was indeed synonyms and antonyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roget%27s_Thesaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roget%27s_Thesaurus see the Project Gutenberg link mentioned in another comment: https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.html#link619N https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/10681/pg10681-images.ht... (or indeed, just read the posted article here). This is still the primary meaning of "thesaurus" in English, and contrasted with "dictionary": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesaurus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesaurus It's very unusual for a thesaurus to contain meanings (beyond the category head/name) and etymology, let alone explanation. Such things are usually found in a dictionary instead. So it's more a question for you: where did your unusual idea of "thesaurus" come from? As one of your examples you mention dictionaries, so that's especially confusing.
- opello 1y ago
  I'd assume from the earlier meaning of "thesaurus" which comes from "treasury," or as it exists in my mind, treasure chest. > The meaning "encyclopedia filled with information" is from 1840, but it existed earlier as thesaurarie (1590s), used as a title by some early dictionary compilers, on the notion of thesaurus verborum "a treasury of words." The meaning "collection of words arranged according to sense" is attested from 1852 in Roget's title. from: https://www.etymonline.com/word/thesaurus https://www.etymonline.com/word/thesaurus
- mmooss 1y ago
  The word comes from Greek, θησαυρός - "a store, treasure, storehouse, treasury". > The usage of "thesaurus" in English for a kind of book dates back to the first one by Peter Mark Roget in 1852 To nitpick, though of interest: The usage meaning a book of words organized by their senses indeed dates to Roget's use in 1852, as the parent comment says. An earlier usage is more generally a 'treasury' of knowledge (in book form): there was a Thesaurus Linguæ Romanæ et Britannicæ ... in 1565, a Thesaurus Linguæ Latinæ compendiarius ... in 1736, and John Stuart Mill in 1840 wrote about "A thesaurus of commonplaces for the discussion of questions." Source: Oxford English Dictionary

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

MichaelMoser123 1y ago

I once had a python side project, it parses the 1911 edition of Roget Thesaurus into memory and provides some queries. https://github.com/MoserMichael/roget-thesaurus-parser https://github.com/MoserMichael/roget-thesaurus-parser

Michelangelo11 1y ago

Interesting. So, a kind of precursor to LLMs, or if you like, a pre-electronic, pen-and-paper latent space.