7 ms·

An Update on Fresh

75 points by agos 1y ago

Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
I am not sure, deno seems really bleak as I had read the HN post about deno actively shrinking its datacenters and fresh activity. This seems an attempt to show to the world that its not that, but I would say that it's still not working. Deno deploy, their product is better on supabase or even bunny cdn which provides more locations than deno itself. Bun also exists. And did we forget about node itself? Cloudflare workers is a beast if we can work with non standards/ I personally feel a little bit that some code meant for node won't work on cf as much as it would on deno
- sync 1y ago
  The HN post referenced in case others missed it: Deno's Decline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43863937 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43863937 - May 2025 (157 comments)
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    Thanks a lot! I might add it in the original comment attributing it to you as well. Thanks again. Edit: wait I can't edit my original comment, I think it might be because its already commented on by people, so yeah this is the only way for people to find out about it.
- pjmlp 1y ago
  I have been around for a bit, until now being a laggard in alternative implementations has always paid off. Eventually the reference implementation gets the features that are more relevant, and we move on.
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    Yes, I think that is why I had written "have we forgotten about node" because most people seem to forget node given deno/bun (including "me"), so Of course, node won't have deno or bun occupy its market share and it would also add those features. Its a net positive for everybody except the people who are working in alternative implementations unless they are being sponsored or they are doing it for fun. As a company, I am sorry, but I just see no ways of pure revenue once node improves
- CharlesW 1y ago
  > I am not sure, deno seems really bleak… There are plenty of moribund open source projects. But looking at this month's 2.3 release, Deno's future strikes me as the opposite of bleak. As for Deno Deploy, sure —¹ it may fail. But regarding the Deno folks scaling their footprint in response to changes like real-world usage patterns, adoption timelines, our rapidly-contracting economy, or whatever, that's a far better response than ostriching in the longer run. ¹ This em-dash was lovingly hand-crafted by a Mac user. Please don't em-shame.
  - egglemonsoup 1y ago
    I don't want to live in a world where we have to add footnotes when using em dashes
    - CharlesW 1y ago
      Same, my typographically-savvy friend. This "dead giveaway" too shall pass — first it was certain words, today it's em-dashes, and tomorrow we'll be forced to introduce grammatical errors.
      - tough 1y ago
        hey now typos make you authentic, that's a plus
        int_19h 1y ago
        1337$|"33|< ph7\^/
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    I meant deno's future as of how the company would survive with competitors/ the ecosystem growing and node adopting. Because the company is basically the only one "really" working on the product, if the company can't find a decent source of revenue, (I am not sure "what" is the product that deno sells that others can't / aren't selling already ie. bunny cdn / supabase hosting deno subhosting) I would love deno to win, maybe be even faster than bun and maybe help with permissions a little bit more as I played around with deno scripts and it quickly devolved into a permission nightmare from my personal experience, maybe I am inexperienced, but I didn't had the issues in bun.
- lambtron 1y ago
  hey Andy from Deno here. thanks for your comment. we reduced our Deno Deploy regions not because Deno is in decline. (in fact we have seen about 2x adoption since release of Deno 2.) it's just that we noticed more users using Deno Deploy for hosting applications vs. edge functions, which was our original vision for Deploy. in many scenarios, application performance is improved with fewer, more highly trafficked regions vs. many spread out but more idle regions. we will be covering that in more detail in a dedicated blog post next week.
  - Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
    Wow! Didn't expect anyone from Deno team to respond. I just thought I was shouting stuff in the void for my fellow HN people at most reading it. Thanks for the clarification. I have some questions though:- Aside from the fact that deno allows npm compatibility, how is deno deploy any better than cloudflare hosting which I currently use, since cloudflare workers also have some compatibility layer I suppose and cloudflare workers can and do host applications and edge functions both. I can understand if things like nextjs which don't run as smoothly on cf workers, if at all (I haven't tried them but I do know that its easier to run nextjs on vercel than any other competitor), but nextjs can run easily on deno, so that might be a really big niche tbh But as a sveltekit user, here's my opinion I have deployed so many sveltekit websites to cloudflare workers, 100k limit never disappoints me or limits me, cf workers also has a kv which is good for simple databases. I am seriously considering to always use cloudflare workers since currently I am just a student and it gives me 100k requests per month limit and after that its still really really cheap. I had compared deno's tier and cf tier's sometime ago and cf was the winner there, I don't know what's the situation now but I am willing to hear. Cf workers wrangler developer-experience is genuinely decent in my opinion, not as easy as deno deploy I suppose but still its worth it given all the previous points. Deno is really nice compared to node, I in fact was the guy who watched fireship video and then the deno video itself and then I legit went to my brother's room knocking on his door (my brother is also a coder, in fact he knows his stuff whereas I am just this 16 year old student) and I legit wanted him to try out deno. But I am having mixed opinions now and I don't mean any defamation of deno team who are really nice and kind for what I've seen. Have a really nice day Andy. Hope deno achieves success.
aarestad 1y ago
A bit of Deno trivia: it runs the big "Chicago Brick" video wall in Google's main office in Fulton Market; they open-source the code here: https://github.com/google/chicago-brick https://github.com/google/chicago-brick (I contributed a little "Penrose-tile" module during my time there, though I never got it in production :P)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- xnx 1y ago
  Cool. Do you know of any recorded video of the video wall in action? I wasn't able to find any.
  - aarestad 1y ago
    I can't find one either! Here's a 10-year-old article with a picture of it, though it looks slightly different now: https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151204/west-loop/long-awaited-google-offices-open-fulton-market-photos/ https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151204/west-loop/long-awai...
lucacasonato 1y ago
Happy to answer any questions :)
- skybrian 1y ago
  As a hobbyist programmer, I’m wondering how the Open Telemetry support would be useful to me? I’ve read about tools like Grafana on Hacker News, but never installed any of them.
- sisk 1y ago
  Hiya. No questions but just an fyi: the version of `@fresh/init` mentioned in the article (`2.0.0-alpha.30`) fails to run. Looks like latest at this time (`2.0.0-alpha.33`) runs successfully.
  - lambtron 1y ago
    Thank you! We fixed it.
- agos 1y ago
  Considering Fresh as an option for a project I found it baffling (to say the least) that it had shipped an 1.0 with Tailwind as the only option for styling and even more that 2.0 is not even starting to address the topic. Can you comment on the topic?
roxolotl 1y ago
I think there’s a universe in which Deno took off but it’s clearly not ours. I’m inclined to believe this is because what Deno is trying for, a more mature standards based and security focused version of the JavaScript ecosystem, isn’t what people use JavaScript for. Makes me sad because I really appreciate what they are trying to do.
- tough 1y ago
  Bun is really taking their lunch with a more simpler USP, "Faster"
- pier25 1y ago
  By far my biggest issue with Node is the dependency on the fragile NPM ecosystem. I could be wrong but I think if Deno had tackled this problem head-on it would have become more popular. Provide a framework or built-in libs which allow you to build a number of use cases (JSON API, etc) with as little dependencies as possible. That would be something much more valuable than becoming a Node replacement for the NPM ecosystem. Deno seems to be spending a lot of time and money into Node compat which so far (afaik) hasn't produced results.
  - simlevesque 1y ago
    > Deno seems to be spending a lot of time and money into Node compat which so far (afaik) hasn't produced results. These days there's almost nothing you can't do in Deno that you can do in Node. If you think there is, please reply here but I think that time has passed.
    - MrJohz 1y ago
      The thing I ran into today was jsdom not seeming to work at all in Deno. My use case was trying to run Playwright to scrape a site, copy the resultant HTML into jsdom, then run Mozilla's `readability` module on that to get a summary of the page. I found a replacement for Playwright (astral), and `readability` seems to be runtime agnostic as long as it has access to DOM APIs, but jsdom doesn't work with Deno yet. I'd love to hear if there's an alternative to jsdom that I could use, because I unfortunately can't switch entirely over to NodeJS in this particular project, so either I find a replacement server-side DOM library, or I need to juggle two runtimes for different parts of the project. :/
xmorse 1y ago
A Fresh update
andrewl-hn 1y ago
On a meta level: after decades of VC-speak overuse on the internet any headline that says "An update on Thing" reads as "We are shutting Thing down". So, people who decide not to read this article may simply assume that this is another piece of bad news about Deno. It is not: the post talks about the development progress of their web framework, which seems to be their take on server-rendered pages with islands of interactivity. Kinda like Astro or maybe like Remix.
- bonoboTP 1y ago
  I was definitely expecting it to be an incredible journey before clicking.
- binary132 1y ago
  You hit the nail on the head. I actually came to the comments to check my assumption that this was about a “rebrand” before reading the article
- jerlam 1y ago
  I feel the same way when I get an email with a vague subject - it's bad news and someone is quitting. People think they are being gentle but it has the opposite effect now.
globalise83 1y ago
Super excited about Fresh 2.0 I believe that Fresh is pretty ideal for AI-paired web development since so much information about the application structure is easily parsable just by iterating through the file system (routes are folders and files). I have been using Claude Desktop MCP server with Fresh 1.0 and Claude can "read" the application pretty well.
bpev 1y ago
Haven't really been using Fresh; I feel like whenever I get into the blending of client/server with these ecosystems, things get real muddy real fast. Mostly been doing either sites (mostly fully ssr with Hono + very light vanilla), or fully client-rendered web pwas (solid or mithril). Deno itself, though, is still a very comfy js environment. I pretty much use it for all js/ts that doesn't run in the browser (I also use it for build steps of said browser code). It just kinda has everything I need/want, so I don't have to add too many dependencies, and don't have to muck around in build/env stuff. Just feels kinda easy.
- written-beyond 1y ago
  I was runtime/ecosystem hopping recently, trying to find a something that'll make me more comfortable in building RESTful crud + auth services. I (tried) buildinv the same service in Go, Node(Fastify), Deno(Hono) and Rust (Axum). Honestly my worst experience was with Deno. It's being built and shipped so fast even the fragmentation doesn't make sense. Some packages are on JSR and others on their own registry. Some NPM packages could be found on JSR but they'd be very out of date, locating docs was very difficult for those individual packages. The new deno.json format was very confusing, was it opt-in or wasn't it. Compatibility may have been fixed but I couldn't get too far with building because of the difficulty in finding upto date packages. They abandoned their own postgres client, which isn't on JSR either. Now compare that with Rust, which doesn't have anything in it's std-lib to help you connect to a database, setup an HTTP server. However the ecosystem is cohesive enough, maybe partly due to tokio, that you could stumble your way to a recently/library maintained example project on GitHub. At the end of it I honestly did not see much of a benefit to my development experience shifting to Deno. Projects where I could see some of those devex improvements are too large to migrate.
  - bpev 1y ago
    huh, I mean idk experiences differ. My main project's service is written in Rust/Axum, and I enjoy it a lot. But I thought it was actually kind of frustrating to find that combination; Axum was the 3rd http client I tried, after the first two failed me in different ways. If I had started with the https client first and hadn't already felt good about building the codebase in Rust, I might have just gotten annoyed and moved on. First impressions can sometimes skew the perspective a little. fwiw, re finding up-to-date packages, you can also pull in npm dependencies. idk what you found confusing about the deno.json, but it's definitely optional; you can just write imports directly in the .js file if you want. I often make single-file scripts to run some npm package over a local file.
simlevesque 1y ago
Fresh is awesome. I have a couple of commercial products running it right now and I find it very fast to develop with. It powers my friend's canadian roasted coffee business website, available here: https://torque.cafe/en/ https://torque.cafe/en/
enz 1y ago
Using Fresh (v1) for a commercial project, mostly SSR with a very few islands. So far it has been great for my productivity and it’s reasonably fast for our purposes (we run it on a VPS, not Deno Deploy)
watusername 1y ago
Please do not title your posts "An Update On X" if you aren't shutting it down. You can blame the SV startups for the connotation but that's where we're at now. But in this case, I guess it has worked as a form of clickbait :)
- ljm 1y ago
  I think the opposite would be better: get startups to rip the bandaid off and title their posts: “We’re shutting down.” Then you don’t have to waste your energy reading corporate waffle.
  - ItsHarper 1y ago
    That would be a way better outcome, but there's also not much we can do to prevent that.
    - Angostura 1y ago
      Why is it harder to ask people who are shutting down to be explicit in their headlines? rather than telling all the people who aren’t shutting down to change their headlines?
      - dylan604 1y ago
        You aren't from around here, are you? /s Disruptors gonna disrupt even when broke AF and shutting down.
      - ItsHarper 1y ago
        Asking is easy, but they don't have a big incentive to make it clear up front that they're shutting down. Whereas the people who aren't shutting down do have a clear incentive to make sure that people don't think they're shutting down.
  - watusername 1y ago
    Well, in an ideal world, _everyone_ would be using informative headlines, regardless of whether they are shutting things down or not. For this post in particular, "An Early Look at Fresh 2" would make a better title, albeit with less "clickbait potential" (well, people love drama). With a "An Update on X" headline you both fail to inform and give the impression that you are killing the thing.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
65 1y ago
The Fresh home page has a routing bug on it (https://fresh.deno.dev https://fresh.deno.dev) Scroll down to "Stream HTML straight from the server" -> Click "Lemonade" recipe link -> Click "Learn more about Partials" Button -> Press back button -> Press back button again -> Press forward button = The raw Lemonade recipe HTML partial gets rendered instead of the full page. Or just go here straight from this link: https://fresh.deno.dev/recipes/lemonade https://fresh.deno.dev/recipes/lemonade Maybe they should add some logic to prevent being able to load partials as their own page.
dfee 1y ago
I’ve been checking every couple weeks for a status update on Fresh for the last six months (others have been checking longer, it’s a vocal set of early adopters on GH and discord!). I’m not even sure I’d have confidence in adopting Fresh, but I definitely was using it as a canary for the Deno org’s health. If they can’t maintain their flagship front end framework, after all, they must be circling the drain? If that’s not the situation, I’m bewildered by their approach to communication. Anyway, I’m still left wondering if Deno will be around in 18mo. It’s generally a nice DX, but so risky to bet on. I want them to succeed, but fear they won’t.

75 points by agos 1y ago

I am not sure, deno seems really bleak as I had read the HN post about deno actively shrinking its datacenters and fresh activity. This seems an attempt to show to the world that its not that, but I would say that it's still not working. Deno deploy, their product is better on supabase or even bunny cdn which provides more locations than deno itself. Bun also exists. And did we forget about node itself? Cloudflare workers is a beast if we can work with non standards/ I personally feel a little bit that some code meant for node won't work on cf as much as it would on deno

sync 1y ago
The HN post referenced in case others missed it: Deno's Decline - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43863937 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43863937 - May 2025 (157 comments)
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  Thanks a lot! I might add it in the original comment attributing it to you as well. Thanks again. Edit: wait I can't edit my original comment, I think it might be because its already commented on by people, so yeah this is the only way for people to find out about it.
pjmlp 1y ago
I have been around for a bit, until now being a laggard in alternative implementations has always paid off. Eventually the reference implementation gets the features that are more relevant, and we move on.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  Yes, I think that is why I had written "have we forgotten about node" because most people seem to forget node given deno/bun (including "me"), so Of course, node won't have deno or bun occupy its market share and it would also add those features. Its a net positive for everybody except the people who are working in alternative implementations unless they are being sponsored or they are doing it for fun. As a company, I am sorry, but I just see no ways of pure revenue once node improves
CharlesW 1y ago
> I am not sure, deno seems really bleak… There are plenty of moribund open source projects. But looking at this month's 2.3 release, Deno's future strikes me as the opposite of bleak. As for Deno Deploy, sure —¹ it may fail. But regarding the Deno folks scaling their footprint in response to changes like real-world usage patterns, adoption timelines, our rapidly-contracting economy, or whatever, that's a far better response than ostriching in the longer run. ¹ This em-dash was lovingly hand-crafted by a Mac user. Please don't em-shame.
- egglemonsoup 1y ago
  I don't want to live in a world where we have to add footnotes when using em dashes
  - CharlesW 1y ago
    Same, my typographically-savvy friend. This "dead giveaway" too shall pass — first it was certain words, today it's em-dashes, and tomorrow we'll be forced to introduce grammatical errors.
    - tough 1y ago
      hey now typos make you authentic, that's a plus
      - int_19h 1y ago
        1337$|"33|< ph7\^/
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  I meant deno's future as of how the company would survive with competitors/ the ecosystem growing and node adopting. Because the company is basically the only one "really" working on the product, if the company can't find a decent source of revenue, (I am not sure "what" is the product that deno sells that others can't / aren't selling already ie. bunny cdn / supabase hosting deno subhosting) I would love deno to win, maybe be even faster than bun and maybe help with permissions a little bit more as I played around with deno scripts and it quickly devolved into a permission nightmare from my personal experience, maybe I am inexperienced, but I didn't had the issues in bun.
lambtron 1y ago
hey Andy from Deno here. thanks for your comment. we reduced our Deno Deploy regions not because Deno is in decline. (in fact we have seen about 2x adoption since release of Deno 2.) it's just that we noticed more users using Deno Deploy for hosting applications vs. edge functions, which was our original vision for Deploy. in many scenarios, application performance is improved with fewer, more highly trafficked regions vs. many spread out but more idle regions. we will be covering that in more detail in a dedicated blog post next week.
- Imustaskforhelp 1y ago
  Wow! Didn't expect anyone from Deno team to respond. I just thought I was shouting stuff in the void for my fellow HN people at most reading it. Thanks for the clarification. I have some questions though:- Aside from the fact that deno allows npm compatibility, how is deno deploy any better than cloudflare hosting which I currently use, since cloudflare workers also have some compatibility layer I suppose and cloudflare workers can and do host applications and edge functions both. I can understand if things like nextjs which don't run as smoothly on cf workers, if at all (I haven't tried them but I do know that its easier to run nextjs on vercel than any other competitor), but nextjs can run easily on deno, so that might be a really big niche tbh But as a sveltekit user, here's my opinion I have deployed so many sveltekit websites to cloudflare workers, 100k limit never disappoints me or limits me, cf workers also has a kv which is good for simple databases. I am seriously considering to always use cloudflare workers since currently I am just a student and it gives me 100k requests per month limit and after that its still really really cheap. I had compared deno's tier and cf tier's sometime ago and cf was the winner there, I don't know what's the situation now but I am willing to hear. Cf workers wrangler developer-experience is genuinely decent in my opinion, not as easy as deno deploy I suppose but still its worth it given all the previous points. Deno is really nice compared to node, I in fact was the guy who watched fireship video and then the deno video itself and then I legit went to my brother's room knocking on his door (my brother is also a coder, in fact he knows his stuff whereas I am just this 16 year old student) and I legit wanted him to try out deno. But I am having mixed opinions now and I don't mean any defamation of deno team who are really nice and kind for what I've seen. Have a really nice day Andy. Hope deno achieves success.

aarestad 1y ago

A bit of Deno trivia: it runs the big "Chicago Brick" video wall in Google's main office in Fulton Market; they open-source the code here: https://github.com/google/chicago-brick https://github.com/google/chicago-brick (I contributed a little "Penrose-tile" module during my time there, though I never got it in production :P)

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
xnx 1y ago
Cool. Do you know of any recorded video of the video wall in action? I wasn't able to find any.
- aarestad 1y ago
  I can't find one either! Here's a 10-year-old article with a picture of it, though it looks slightly different now: https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151204/west-loop/long-awaited-google-offices-open-fulton-market-photos/ https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20151204/west-loop/long-awai...

lucacasonato 1y ago

Happy to answer any questions :)

skybrian 1y ago
As a hobbyist programmer, I’m wondering how the Open Telemetry support would be useful to me? I’ve read about tools like Grafana on Hacker News, but never installed any of them.
sisk 1y ago
Hiya. No questions but just an fyi: the version of `@fresh/init` mentioned in the article (`2.0.0-alpha.30`) fails to run. Looks like latest at this time (`2.0.0-alpha.33`) runs successfully.
- lambtron 1y ago
  Thank you! We fixed it.
agos 1y ago
Considering Fresh as an option for a project I found it baffling (to say the least) that it had shipped an 1.0 with Tailwind as the only option for styling and even more that 2.0 is not even starting to address the topic. Can you comment on the topic?

roxolotl 1y ago

I think there’s a universe in which Deno took off but it’s clearly not ours. I’m inclined to believe this is because what Deno is trying for, a more mature standards based and security focused version of the JavaScript ecosystem, isn’t what people use JavaScript for. Makes me sad because I really appreciate what they are trying to do.

tough 1y ago
Bun is really taking their lunch with a more simpler USP, "Faster"
pier25 1y ago
By far my biggest issue with Node is the dependency on the fragile NPM ecosystem. I could be wrong but I think if Deno had tackled this problem head-on it would have become more popular. Provide a framework or built-in libs which allow you to build a number of use cases (JSON API, etc) with as little dependencies as possible. That would be something much more valuable than becoming a Node replacement for the NPM ecosystem. Deno seems to be spending a lot of time and money into Node compat which so far (afaik) hasn't produced results.
- simlevesque 1y ago
  > Deno seems to be spending a lot of time and money into Node compat which so far (afaik) hasn't produced results. These days there's almost nothing you can't do in Deno that you can do in Node. If you think there is, please reply here but I think that time has passed.
  - MrJohz 1y ago
    The thing I ran into today was jsdom not seeming to work at all in Deno. My use case was trying to run Playwright to scrape a site, copy the resultant HTML into jsdom, then run Mozilla's `readability` module on that to get a summary of the page. I found a replacement for Playwright (astral), and `readability` seems to be runtime agnostic as long as it has access to DOM APIs, but jsdom doesn't work with Deno yet. I'd love to hear if there's an alternative to jsdom that I could use, because I unfortunately can't switch entirely over to NodeJS in this particular project, so either I find a replacement server-side DOM library, or I need to juggle two runtimes for different parts of the project. :/

xmorse 1y ago

A Fresh update

andrewl-hn 1y ago

On a meta level: after decades of VC-speak overuse on the internet any headline that says "An update on Thing" reads as "We are shutting Thing down". So, people who decide not to read this article may simply assume that this is another piece of bad news about Deno. It is not: the post talks about the development progress of their web framework, which seems to be their take on server-rendered pages with islands of interactivity. Kinda like Astro or maybe like Remix.

bonoboTP 1y ago
I was definitely expecting it to be an incredible journey before clicking.
binary132 1y ago
You hit the nail on the head. I actually came to the comments to check my assumption that this was about a “rebrand” before reading the article
jerlam 1y ago
I feel the same way when I get an email with a vague subject - it's bad news and someone is quitting. People think they are being gentle but it has the opposite effect now.

globalise83 1y ago

Super excited about Fresh 2.0 I believe that Fresh is pretty ideal for AI-paired web development since so much information about the application structure is easily parsable just by iterating through the file system (routes are folders and files). I have been using Claude Desktop MCP server with Fresh 1.0 and Claude can "read" the application pretty well.

bpev 1y ago

Haven't really been using Fresh; I feel like whenever I get into the blending of client/server with these ecosystems, things get real muddy real fast. Mostly been doing either sites (mostly fully ssr with Hono + very light vanilla), or fully client-rendered web pwas (solid or mithril). Deno itself, though, is still a very comfy js environment. I pretty much use it for all js/ts that doesn't run in the browser (I also use it for build steps of said browser code). It just kinda has everything I need/want, so I don't have to add too many dependencies, and don't have to muck around in build/env stuff. Just feels kinda easy.

written-beyond 1y ago
I was runtime/ecosystem hopping recently, trying to find a something that'll make me more comfortable in building RESTful crud + auth services. I (tried) buildinv the same service in Go, Node(Fastify), Deno(Hono) and Rust (Axum). Honestly my worst experience was with Deno. It's being built and shipped so fast even the fragmentation doesn't make sense. Some packages are on JSR and others on their own registry. Some NPM packages could be found on JSR but they'd be very out of date, locating docs was very difficult for those individual packages. The new deno.json format was very confusing, was it opt-in or wasn't it. Compatibility may have been fixed but I couldn't get too far with building because of the difficulty in finding upto date packages. They abandoned their own postgres client, which isn't on JSR either. Now compare that with Rust, which doesn't have anything in it's std-lib to help you connect to a database, setup an HTTP server. However the ecosystem is cohesive enough, maybe partly due to tokio, that you could stumble your way to a recently/library maintained example project on GitHub. At the end of it I honestly did not see much of a benefit to my development experience shifting to Deno. Projects where I could see some of those devex improvements are too large to migrate.
- bpev 1y ago
  huh, I mean idk experiences differ. My main project's service is written in Rust/Axum, and I enjoy it a lot. But I thought it was actually kind of frustrating to find that combination; Axum was the 3rd http client I tried, after the first two failed me in different ways. If I had started with the https client first and hadn't already felt good about building the codebase in Rust, I might have just gotten annoyed and moved on. First impressions can sometimes skew the perspective a little. fwiw, re finding up-to-date packages, you can also pull in npm dependencies. idk what you found confusing about the deno.json, but it's definitely optional; you can just write imports directly in the .js file if you want. I often make single-file scripts to run some npm package over a local file.

simlevesque 1y ago

Fresh is awesome. I have a couple of commercial products running it right now and I find it very fast to develop with. It powers my friend's canadian roasted coffee business website, available here: https://torque.cafe/en/ https://torque.cafe/en/

enz 1y ago

Using Fresh (v1) for a commercial project, mostly SSR with a very few islands. So far it has been great for my productivity and it’s reasonably fast for our purposes (we run it on a VPS, not Deno Deploy)

watusername 1y ago

Please do not title your posts "An Update On X" if you aren't shutting it down. You can blame the SV startups for the connotation but that's where we're at now. But in this case, I guess it has worked as a form of clickbait :)

ljm 1y ago
I think the opposite would be better: get startups to rip the bandaid off and title their posts: “We’re shutting down.” Then you don’t have to waste your energy reading corporate waffle.
- ItsHarper 1y ago
  That would be a way better outcome, but there's also not much we can do to prevent that.
  - Angostura 1y ago
    Why is it harder to ask people who are shutting down to be explicit in their headlines? rather than telling all the people who aren’t shutting down to change their headlines?
    - dylan604 1y ago
      You aren't from around here, are you? /s Disruptors gonna disrupt even when broke AF and shutting down.
    - ItsHarper 1y ago
      Asking is easy, but they don't have a big incentive to make it clear up front that they're shutting down. Whereas the people who aren't shutting down do have a clear incentive to make sure that people don't think they're shutting down.
- watusername 1y ago
  Well, in an ideal world, _everyone_ would be using informative headlines, regardless of whether they are shutting things down or not. For this post in particular, "An Early Look at Fresh 2" would make a better title, albeit with less "clickbait potential" (well, people love drama). With a "An Update on X" headline you both fail to inform and give the impression that you are killing the thing.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

65 1y ago

The Fresh home page has a routing bug on it (https://fresh.deno.dev https://fresh.deno.dev) Scroll down to "Stream HTML straight from the server" -> Click "Lemonade" recipe link -> Click "Learn more about Partials" Button -> Press back button -> Press back button again -> Press forward button = The raw Lemonade recipe HTML partial gets rendered instead of the full page. Or just go here straight from this link: https://fresh.deno.dev/recipes/lemonade https://fresh.deno.dev/recipes/lemonade Maybe they should add some logic to prevent being able to load partials as their own page.

dfee 1y ago

I’ve been checking every couple weeks for a status update on Fresh for the last six months (others have been checking longer, it’s a vocal set of early adopters on GH and discord!). I’m not even sure I’d have confidence in adopting Fresh, but I definitely was using it as a canary for the Deno org’s health. If they can’t maintain their flagship front end framework, after all, they must be circling the drain? If that’s not the situation, I’m bewildered by their approach to communication. Anyway, I’m still left wondering if Deno will be around in 18mo. It’s generally a nice DX, but so risky to bet on. I want them to succeed, but fear they won’t.