5 ms·

Does anybody else feel all the tech giants standing around with their patents in hand is like all the characters standing around with guns like at the end of Re

Does anybody else feel all the tech giants standing around with their patents in hand is like all the characters standing around with guns like at the end of Reservoir Dogs? "Nobody innovate or we'll shoot!" It's intriguing at first, but you can only keep it up so long before the plot line gets annoying because no one is doing anything (or innovating), or someone gets shot.

larsberg 14y ago
IIRC, big companies used to claim they were gathering these patents to _prevent_ this situation from happening, using a similar logic to that of hoarding nuclear weapons to mutually assured destruction. But it appears that something in the balance has changed, and I'm not really sure what. Are the lawyers just doing a bad job of agreeing on the licensing fees (i.e. penalty for having less cross-targeted bombs for a given opponent)? It's hard to know what to make of it all, putting myself in the shoes of an exec at one of these large companies. At least when I was at MSFT, we used to worry about this thing called "bad press" around lawsuits of this kind...
- Lewisham 14y ago
  What changed was that Nokia was on the rocks, so they launched their missiles. And, as is the way with mutually assured destruction scenarios, Apple responded, and everyone else got dragged in one way or another.
  - tsotha 14y ago
    Yep, MAD only works until the first guy pulls the trigger.
    - niels_olson 14y ago
      Ref: World War One
- rmc 14y ago
  But it appears that something in the balance has changed, and I'm not really sure what. Google are trying to stop software patents by actually using the ones they have? Force a meltdown?
- dspeyer 14y ago
  I think the destabilizing thing was how long Google _didn't_ play the MAD game. So Apple went on the warpath feeling safe. But Google militarized really fast.
dmoy 14y ago
There is a phrase common in patent law called "dancing with the gorilla." This is what we are seeing. It is not limited to just software tech patents, this occurs in other areas as well.
spot 14y ago
let's be clear. this war is apple's doing, not "all the tech giants".
- sbuk 14y ago
  Nokia and Motorola pulled the trigger. Everyone is responsible.
  - cageface 14y ago
    That's a separate battle. This is a new round in the war Steve Jobs started to destroy Android.
    - sbuk 14y ago
      Doesn't matter what round it is, or ultimately who started. They are all acting like spoiled children.
      - cageface 14y ago
        They're acting like big companies with huge legal war chests that will do what it takes to succeed in a very lucrative and important market. The broken patent system has created all the wrong incentives here. Hopefully lawmakers will take notice and fix the problem and we won't have to go on bickering about the symptoms.
  - randomfool 14y ago
    Motorola only pulled the trigger after being approached by Apple and a lawsuit from Apple was imminent (as in days away). Filing first allows pick of the location & other benefits.
jsz0 14y ago
I disagree. It's more about money than innovation. The non-copy arrangement that Microsoft & Apple have led to Windows Phone which I think most would agree is the most unique and maybe the most innovative platform. Would consumers be better off if Microsoft could have puked out an iOS/Android clone instead? Arguably Windows Phone as we know it may be suffering commercially because it is a departure from the iOS/Android model. So in this case is being less innovative actually a smarter business move? If so that's really troubling. We are not seeing small companies getting stomped out over patents but instead giants fighting over who gets the most money selling essentially the same basic products.
- randomfool 14y ago
  What non-copy arrangement? AFAIK Microsoft and Apple have fairly broad cross-licensing agreements, and that some of the items that Apple has been suing Android for infringing are implemented on Windows Phone as well.
  - josephlord 14y ago
    It seems to have emerged that: 1) Microsoft has a cross license deal with Apple. Samsung's license 'offer' from Apple included discounts when using licensed OSes and the example was MS provided OSes. 2) Said deal include terms requiring Microsoft to make products that aren't too similar to the iPhone although I'm not sure how that is defined.
- bborud 14y ago
  > Would consumers be better off if Microsoft could have puked out an iOS/Android clone instead? No, and I'll tell you why: if Microsoft felt they could have made an UI that followed the new design language that is about to become canonical for smart phones, more consumers would be tempted to buy Windows Phones. If Microsoft were to make a comeback and become a dominant player it is 100% guaranteed to result in zero innovation. Microsoft NEVER innovates when in a dominant position. So in a sense, Microsoft condemning themselves to irrelevance by having to desperately invent new designs that don't actually work IS good for the consumer. In a roundabout sort of way.
Gring 14y ago
That "standing around with guns" is called a Mexican standoff: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicanStandoff http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicanStandoff , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Standoff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Standoff

larsberg 14y ago

IIRC, big companies used to claim they were gathering these patents to _prevent_ this situation from happening, using a similar logic to that of hoarding nuclear weapons to mutually assured destruction. But it appears that something in the balance has changed, and I'm not really sure what. Are the lawyers just doing a bad job of agreeing on the licensing fees (i.e. penalty for having less cross-targeted bombs for a given opponent)? It's hard to know what to make of it all, putting myself in the shoes of an exec at one of these large companies. At least when I was at MSFT, we used to worry about this thing called "bad press" around lawsuits of this kind...

Lewisham 14y ago
What changed was that Nokia was on the rocks, so they launched their missiles. And, as is the way with mutually assured destruction scenarios, Apple responded, and everyone else got dragged in one way or another.
- tsotha 14y ago
  Yep, MAD only works until the first guy pulls the trigger.
  - niels_olson 14y ago
    Ref: World War One
rmc 14y ago
But it appears that something in the balance has changed, and I'm not really sure what. Google are trying to stop software patents by actually using the ones they have? Force a meltdown?
dspeyer 14y ago
I think the destabilizing thing was how long Google _didn't_ play the MAD game. So Apple went on the warpath feeling safe. But Google militarized really fast.

dmoy 14y ago

There is a phrase common in patent law called "dancing with the gorilla." This is what we are seeing. It is not limited to just software tech patents, this occurs in other areas as well.

spot 14y ago

let's be clear. this war is apple's doing, not "all the tech giants".

sbuk 14y ago
Nokia and Motorola pulled the trigger. Everyone is responsible.
- cageface 14y ago
  That's a separate battle. This is a new round in the war Steve Jobs started to destroy Android.
  - sbuk 14y ago
    Doesn't matter what round it is, or ultimately who started. They are all acting like spoiled children.
    - cageface 14y ago
      They're acting like big companies with huge legal war chests that will do what it takes to succeed in a very lucrative and important market. The broken patent system has created all the wrong incentives here. Hopefully lawmakers will take notice and fix the problem and we won't have to go on bickering about the symptoms.
- randomfool 14y ago
  Motorola only pulled the trigger after being approached by Apple and a lawsuit from Apple was imminent (as in days away). Filing first allows pick of the location & other benefits.

jsz0 14y ago

I disagree. It's more about money than innovation. The non-copy arrangement that Microsoft & Apple have led to Windows Phone which I think most would agree is the most unique and maybe the most innovative platform. Would consumers be better off if Microsoft could have puked out an iOS/Android clone instead? Arguably Windows Phone as we know it may be suffering commercially because it is a departure from the iOS/Android model. So in this case is being less innovative actually a smarter business move? If so that's really troubling. We are not seeing small companies getting stomped out over patents but instead giants fighting over who gets the most money selling essentially the same basic products.

randomfool 14y ago
What non-copy arrangement? AFAIK Microsoft and Apple have fairly broad cross-licensing agreements, and that some of the items that Apple has been suing Android for infringing are implemented on Windows Phone as well.
- josephlord 14y ago
  It seems to have emerged that: 1) Microsoft has a cross license deal with Apple. Samsung's license 'offer' from Apple included discounts when using licensed OSes and the example was MS provided OSes. 2) Said deal include terms requiring Microsoft to make products that aren't too similar to the iPhone although I'm not sure how that is defined.
bborud 14y ago
> Would consumers be better off if Microsoft could have puked out an iOS/Android clone instead? No, and I'll tell you why: if Microsoft felt they could have made an UI that followed the new design language that is about to become canonical for smart phones, more consumers would be tempted to buy Windows Phones. If Microsoft were to make a comeback and become a dominant player it is 100% guaranteed to result in zero innovation. Microsoft NEVER innovates when in a dominant position. So in a sense, Microsoft condemning themselves to irrelevance by having to desperately invent new designs that don't actually work IS good for the consumer. In a roundabout sort of way.

Gring 14y ago

That "standing around with guns" is called a Mexican standoff: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicanStandoff http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MexicanStandoff , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Standoff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Standoff