7 ms·

This is Motorola suing Apple again, for the record.

by mdwrigh2 14y ago

tedunangst 14y ago
If Google owns Motorola, they could put a stop to this if they wanted to, no?
- Mythbusters 14y ago
  and why would they? It's not that they vowed to do no evil or something.
  - ok_craig 14y ago
    "Don't be evil" doesn't mean sit back and get sued to oblivion by your competitors like a selfless martyr.
    - barista 14y ago
      Don't be evil means use your patents as a defense not to sue others. It means amass a big enough trove that others feel that suing you is going to be futile. Evil is attacking the opponent with the new patents you just "bought" not even developed in-house
      - mdwrigh2 14y ago
        > Don't be evil means use your patents as a defense not to sue others. It means amass a big enough trove that others feel that suing you is going to be futile. Well, when a company is suing all of the companies that use your software over your software, but don't come after you, what are you supposed to do to protect them? Because obviously the "trove" wasn't "big enough". > Evil is attacking the opponent with the new patents you just "bought" not even developed in-house So now companies aren't allowed to use the patents of the companies they've purchased? Should patents be invalidated once the original company is acquired? I'm against software patents in general, but to argue, under the existing system, that one of your subsidiary's shouldn't be allowed to use the patents they developed because you acquired them seems absurd.
      - jemfinch 14y ago
        The reason having a large trove of patents makes it futile for others to sue you is precisely because you can respond to their suits with countersuits of your own.
        deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
      - vitriolix 14y ago
        You clearly have no clue how the legal system works. You use patents defensively by countersuing
    - taligent 14y ago
      "Don't be evil" does mean that you should't abuse FRAND obligations. Hence why Google is being investigated for anti-competitive behaviour by ITC/EU. Given the important of FRAND in the standards process this is very much being evil.
      - mdwrigh2 14y ago
        Note that none of the patents they are suing over this time are FRAND patents.
        eridius 14y ago
        "this time".
        myko 14y ago
        The previous time Motorola Mobility wasn't owned by Google, which was the point of the comment.
        taligent 14y ago
        I know. My point is that Google left the "don't be evil" mantra behind a long time ago.
        neya 14y ago
        You are contradicting yourself. Whatever you say makes no sense - First you claim Google abused FRAND patents, and when your claim was proved invalid, you make a fool of yourself? Nice strategy. Lulz.
        mdwrigh2 14y ago
        I can no longer respond to the people replying to me, so I'm putting this here. Motorola, not Google, sued Apple and Microsoft over FRAND patents in April of 2011. It wasn't until August 2011 that Google even announced their intent to acquire Motorola Mobility, and it took until May 22nd, 2012 for the deal to actually close. If you were referring to a different FRAND case, I apologize, this is the only one I'm aware of.
  - Zigurd 14y ago
    Can't have a settlement without at least the threat of a suit, and "Let's just talk it over." probably did not get Apple's attention.
- duaneb 14y ago
  I suspect the fact that this is happening signals Google's approval.
- WildUtah 14y ago
  No, Google cannot stop this. The only thing that can stop this is if Google, Apple, and Samsung all agree to stop doing it at the same time. Even then, the trolls will continue to decimate independent developers and occasionally catch a big fish for hundreds of millions of dollars until the patent system is reformed to exclude obvious and previously invented items. So far, Google and Samsung seem to be willing to talk about ending the mutual destruction and Apple is recalcitrant. When Apple is ready to talk, maybe things can improve.
  - barista 14y ago
    > Google and Samsung seem to be willing to talk about ending the mutual destruction In the past they seemed eager to talk rather than dispute because they had no weapons to defend themselves. Now that Google has acquired Motorola, they have the patents to go after anybody they want and that's exactly what they are doing.
    - mdwrigh2 14y ago
      > Now that Google has acquired Motorola, they have the patents to go after anybody they want and that's exactly what they are doing. Let's be clear: They've sued Apple, the one person who's been unwilling to cross-license their patents. They aren't suing Microsoft. They aren't suing Oracle. They aren't suing anyone else at this point. Apple, on the other hand, has been suing every Android manufacturer under the sun with the full intention of destroying Android. Is there any evidence to suggest that Google is unwilling to end this silliness, or are you just conjecturing based on their willingness to strike back while Apple remains unwilling?
      - Steko 14y ago
        Let's be even more clear: there isn't a genuine equivalence between Apple suing Samsung and Samsung suing Apple. Even Google's lawyers told Samsung to change their designs. The false equivalence that you and many other people continually try to draw in this thread and every other one like it has poisoned the well. Nokia sues Apple over something? No big deal. Apple sues Samsung over obvious copycat products? End of world. Apple writes $10 bln check to Nokia without much fuss? Serves em right! Samsung might owe Apple a couple billion? End of world. There's a reason Apple sued Android first. and the consistent meme here that it's because Apple is the big bad is, frankly, total bullshit. Google et al. made conscious decisions to copy Apple's products. Now maybe Apple also made a conscious decision to steal Motorola's tech. Maybe Apple's innovations are bullshit, obvious, non-new. OTOH maybe it isn't and maybe Motorola's is. In that case why should Apple cross license it's actual innovations to someone who wants to knock off their products? In that case, Fuck Samsung and Googlerola -- they can write checks just like Apple did to Nokia. Hardly the end of the world.

This is Motorola suing Apple again, for the record.

tedunangst 14y ago

If Google owns Motorola, they could put a stop to this if they wanted to, no?

Mythbusters 14y ago
and why would they? It's not that they vowed to do no evil or something.
- ok_craig 14y ago
  "Don't be evil" doesn't mean sit back and get sued to oblivion by your competitors like a selfless martyr.
  - barista 14y ago
    Don't be evil means use your patents as a defense not to sue others. It means amass a big enough trove that others feel that suing you is going to be futile. Evil is attacking the opponent with the new patents you just "bought" not even developed in-house
    - mdwrigh2 14y ago
      > Don't be evil means use your patents as a defense not to sue others. It means amass a big enough trove that others feel that suing you is going to be futile. Well, when a company is suing all of the companies that use your software over your software, but don't come after you, what are you supposed to do to protect them? Because obviously the "trove" wasn't "big enough". > Evil is attacking the opponent with the new patents you just "bought" not even developed in-house So now companies aren't allowed to use the patents of the companies they've purchased? Should patents be invalidated once the original company is acquired? I'm against software patents in general, but to argue, under the existing system, that one of your subsidiary's shouldn't be allowed to use the patents they developed because you acquired them seems absurd.
    - jemfinch 14y ago
      The reason having a large trove of patents makes it futile for others to sue you is precisely because you can respond to their suits with countersuits of your own.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - vitriolix 14y ago
      You clearly have no clue how the legal system works. You use patents defensively by countersuing
  - taligent 14y ago
    "Don't be evil" does mean that you should't abuse FRAND obligations. Hence why Google is being investigated for anti-competitive behaviour by ITC/EU. Given the important of FRAND in the standards process this is very much being evil.
    - mdwrigh2 14y ago
      Note that none of the patents they are suing over this time are FRAND patents.
      - eridius 14y ago
        "this time".
        myko 14y ago
        The previous time Motorola Mobility wasn't owned by Google, which was the point of the comment.
      - taligent 14y ago
        I know. My point is that Google left the "don't be evil" mantra behind a long time ago.
        neya 14y ago
        You are contradicting yourself. Whatever you say makes no sense - First you claim Google abused FRAND patents, and when your claim was proved invalid, you make a fool of yourself? Nice strategy. Lulz.
      - mdwrigh2 14y ago
        I can no longer respond to the people replying to me, so I'm putting this here. Motorola, not Google, sued Apple and Microsoft over FRAND patents in April of 2011. It wasn't until August 2011 that Google even announced their intent to acquire Motorola Mobility, and it took until May 22nd, 2012 for the deal to actually close. If you were referring to a different FRAND case, I apologize, this is the only one I'm aware of.
- Zigurd 14y ago
  Can't have a settlement without at least the threat of a suit, and "Let's just talk it over." probably did not get Apple's attention.
duaneb 14y ago
I suspect the fact that this is happening signals Google's approval.
WildUtah 14y ago
No, Google cannot stop this. The only thing that can stop this is if Google, Apple, and Samsung all agree to stop doing it at the same time. Even then, the trolls will continue to decimate independent developers and occasionally catch a big fish for hundreds of millions of dollars until the patent system is reformed to exclude obvious and previously invented items. So far, Google and Samsung seem to be willing to talk about ending the mutual destruction and Apple is recalcitrant. When Apple is ready to talk, maybe things can improve.
- barista 14y ago
  > Google and Samsung seem to be willing to talk about ending the mutual destruction In the past they seemed eager to talk rather than dispute because they had no weapons to defend themselves. Now that Google has acquired Motorola, they have the patents to go after anybody they want and that's exactly what they are doing.
  - mdwrigh2 14y ago
    > Now that Google has acquired Motorola, they have the patents to go after anybody they want and that's exactly what they are doing. Let's be clear: They've sued Apple, the one person who's been unwilling to cross-license their patents. They aren't suing Microsoft. They aren't suing Oracle. They aren't suing anyone else at this point. Apple, on the other hand, has been suing every Android manufacturer under the sun with the full intention of destroying Android. Is there any evidence to suggest that Google is unwilling to end this silliness, or are you just conjecturing based on their willingness to strike back while Apple remains unwilling?
    - Steko 14y ago
      Let's be even more clear: there isn't a genuine equivalence between Apple suing Samsung and Samsung suing Apple. Even Google's lawyers told Samsung to change their designs. The false equivalence that you and many other people continually try to draw in this thread and every other one like it has poisoned the well. Nokia sues Apple over something? No big deal. Apple sues Samsung over obvious copycat products? End of world. Apple writes $10 bln check to Nokia without much fuss? Serves em right! Samsung might owe Apple a couple billion? End of world. There's a reason Apple sued Android first. and the consistent meme here that it's because Apple is the big bad is, frankly, total bullshit. Google et al. made conscious decisions to copy Apple's products. Now maybe Apple also made a conscious decision to steal Motorola's tech. Maybe Apple's innovations are bullshit, obvious, non-new. OTOH maybe it isn't and maybe Motorola's is. In that case why should Apple cross license it's actual innovations to someone who wants to knock off their products? In that case, Fuck Samsung and Googlerola -- they can write checks just like Apple did to Nokia. Hardly the end of the world.