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Trams here in Amsterdam are already the deadliest vehicle for pedestrians and cyclists no need to make it worse

by yread 1y ago

btreecat 1y ago
> Trams here in Amsterdam are already the deadliest vehicle for pedestrians and cyclists no need to make it worse Where are you seeing this supporting data?
- gryfft 1y ago
  The data I can find doesn't support the assertion. > In the period between 2019 and 2022, 1,199 cyclists were killed in traffic accidents, with 42 percent of these accidents being caused by collisions with a passenger car or van. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2024/15/684-road-traffic-deaths-in-2023 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2024/15/684-road-traffic-death...
  - yread 1y ago
    Maybe CBS counts trams as "passenger cars"? There isn't any other category where they would fit. This article states there were 5 deaths caused by tram in 2022 (out of 15 total) https://openresearch.amsterdam/nl/media/inline/2024/2/12/rapport_move_gemeente_amsterdam_25_jan_2024.pdf https://openresearch.amsterdam/nl/media/inline/2024/2/12/rap... Here is says that indeed cbs doesn't track it and that there were 21 deaths per year caused by trams, buses and trains, with 57% of those pedestrian or cyclist https://swov.nl/nl/fact/openbaar-vervoer-hoeveel-slachtoffers-vallen-er-ongevallen-met-het-ov https://swov.nl/nl/fact/openbaar-vervoer-hoeveel-slachtoffer... this ad-article "Jaarlijks worden er om en nabij 150 personen behandeld in een ziekenhuis na een aanrijding met een tram en komen er zelfs 40 personen te overlijden na een tramongeval." - I think what they mean is 40 people in a decade? https://letselschadekompas.nl/tram-ongeluk-amsterdam/ https://letselschadekompas.nl/tram-ongeluk-amsterdam/ and here are some news: https://www.at5.nl/nieuws/227944/toerist-19-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-tram-op-martelaarsgracht https://www.at5.nl/nieuws/227944/toerist-19-overleden-na-aan... https://www.dewestkrant.nl/dodelijk-slachtoffer-tramongeval-29-jarige-amsterdammer/ https://www.dewestkrant.nl/dodelijk-slachtoffer-tramongeval-... https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2265358/fietser-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-tram.html https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2265358/fietser-overleden-na-aa... https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/165946/voetganger-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-tram-in-slotermeer https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/165946/voetganger-overleden-na-... https://www.bd.nl/binnenland/slachtoffer-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-rotterdamse-tram-persoon-lag-urenlang-onder-tramstel~adb727f4/ https://www.bd.nl/binnenland/slachtoffer-overleden-na-aanrij...
    - btreecat 1y ago
      So what you're saying is the data doesn't support the claim that trams are particularly dangerous, or more dangerous than passenger vehicles?
      - yread 1y ago
        A third of the deaths caused by a 227 trams compared to 100 000s cars? If you see a tram there is >10% chance this particular one killed someone.

Trams here in Amsterdam are already the deadliest vehicle for pedestrians and cyclists no need to make it worse

by yread 1y ago

Trams here in Amsterdam are already the deadliest vehicle for pedestrians and cyclists no need to make it worse

> Trams here in Amsterdam are already the deadliest vehicle for pedestrians and cyclists no need to make it worse Where are you seeing this supporting data?

gryfft 1y ago
The data I can find doesn't support the assertion. > In the period between 2019 and 2022, 1,199 cyclists were killed in traffic accidents, with 42 percent of these accidents being caused by collisions with a passenger car or van. https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2024/15/684-road-traffic-deaths-in-2023 https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2024/15/684-road-traffic-death...
- yread 1y ago
  Maybe CBS counts trams as "passenger cars"? There isn't any other category where they would fit. This article states there were 5 deaths caused by tram in 2022 (out of 15 total) https://openresearch.amsterdam/nl/media/inline/2024/2/12/rapport_move_gemeente_amsterdam_25_jan_2024.pdf https://openresearch.amsterdam/nl/media/inline/2024/2/12/rap... Here is says that indeed cbs doesn't track it and that there were 21 deaths per year caused by trams, buses and trains, with 57% of those pedestrian or cyclist https://swov.nl/nl/fact/openbaar-vervoer-hoeveel-slachtoffers-vallen-er-ongevallen-met-het-ov https://swov.nl/nl/fact/openbaar-vervoer-hoeveel-slachtoffer... this ad-article "Jaarlijks worden er om en nabij 150 personen behandeld in een ziekenhuis na een aanrijding met een tram en komen er zelfs 40 personen te overlijden na een tramongeval." - I think what they mean is 40 people in a decade? https://letselschadekompas.nl/tram-ongeluk-amsterdam/ https://letselschadekompas.nl/tram-ongeluk-amsterdam/ and here are some news: https://www.at5.nl/nieuws/227944/toerist-19-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-tram-op-martelaarsgracht https://www.at5.nl/nieuws/227944/toerist-19-overleden-na-aan... https://www.dewestkrant.nl/dodelijk-slachtoffer-tramongeval-29-jarige-amsterdammer/ https://www.dewestkrant.nl/dodelijk-slachtoffer-tramongeval-... https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2265358/fietser-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-tram.html https://www.nu.nl/binnenland/2265358/fietser-overleden-na-aa... https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/165946/voetganger-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-tram-in-slotermeer https://www.at5.nl/artikelen/165946/voetganger-overleden-na-... https://www.bd.nl/binnenland/slachtoffer-overleden-na-aanrijding-met-rotterdamse-tram-persoon-lag-urenlang-onder-tramstel~adb727f4/ https://www.bd.nl/binnenland/slachtoffer-overleden-na-aanrij...
  - btreecat 1y ago
    So what you're saying is the data doesn't support the claim that trams are particularly dangerous, or more dangerous than passenger vehicles?
    - yread 1y ago
      A third of the deaths caused by a 227 trams compared to 100 000s cars? If you see a tram there is >10% chance this particular one killed someone.