4 ms·

Measure EEG with Arduino

25 points by Christiangmer 1y ago

pestatije 1y ago
> This Instructable was just published and is still pending review.
appleaday1 1y ago
Anyone interested in building full dive VR machines lol.
spzb 1y ago
Requires only $600 worth of additional equipment. "With Arduino" is doing some heavy lifting.
- tsumnia 1y ago
  Technically still "hobby"-level, I recently acquired the OpenBCI Ultracortex [1] and that's sitting at $3k [1] https://shop.openbci.com/products/the-complete-headset-eeg https://shop.openbci.com/products/the-complete-headset-eeg
  - spzb 1y ago
    Everything's hobby level if you have deep enough pockets.
    - tsumnia 1y ago
      Everything's a hobby until you want to start making money with it
brookst 1y ago
I am so, so excited for the coming wave of non-invasive EEG-based BCI. It feels like the Internet did in the 80’s: obviously on the way, but frustratingly far away.
ThrowawayR2 1y ago
This user is the PiEEG spammer on an alternate account. The GitHub links go to the pieeg-club account, the Youtube link goes to a pieeg account, the more information link in step 6 goes to the pieeg site. Nearly every submission from this user promotes PiEEG in some way even though the URLs go to different legitimate sites (turning on showdead is recommended): https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Christiangmer https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Christiangmer He's built up a really impressive network of accounts and apparently the HN moderators haven't noticed him yet. Pierewsa - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Pierewsa https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Pierewsa ron_87 - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ron_87 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ron_87 marcelobaeb - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=marcelobaeb https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=marcelobaeb ildaron_ron - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ildaron_ron https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ildaron_ron Marat_Japan - https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Marat_Japan https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Marat_Japan Marat_1975 - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975 Marat_1975_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975_ https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975_ Ildarmon - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Ildarmon https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Ildarmon Teraminsa - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Teraminsa https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Teraminsa Tiramisu-soup - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Tiramisu-soup https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Tiramisu-soup GaredFagsss1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=GaredFagsss1 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=GaredFagsss1 leisanrain - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=leisanrain https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=leisanrain
- appleaday1 1y ago
  yeah this is why we vet everyone on the steamdeck sub and ask them for identification verification or atleast team size and stuff when people post their indie games to verify if they are really "indie" I have vetted like 30-50 man companies from UAE this way lol, always be asking questions and always see if something doesnt pass the sniff test.
synapsomorphy 1y ago
I fabbed a couple FreeEEG32 boards [1] recently and have half of a design for my own board put together. This technology CANNOT effectively move a mouse around on a screen today, much less control robots. If it could, they wouldn't have to implant things in paralyzed patients' brains just for basic computer control. I do think it's a very interesting field and there's a lot of improvements to be made. It's also extremely sensitive to noise (for best signal you can't be anywhere near mains power), any movement of facial muscles completely drowns out the brain signal, and getting electrodes prepped properly is time consuming and requires skill. And even in optimal conditions the SNR is not amazing. I'm looking into dry, active electrodes as well as inter-electrode impedance detection to solve electrode prep, and a driven right leg circuit to help SNR. TI ADS1299 (ADC used by this and most other hobbyist EEG boards - directly targeted at EEG thus fairly expensive) has impedance detection and a DRL circuit but best I can tell neither is used by most boards [2]. I'm also interested in pogo pin electrode arrays for increasing spatial resolution. Honestly most EEG boards seem, to me, more for show and money than anything else. No one even attempts to quantify noise levels, and they have very large margins for basically being breakout boards for ADC chips. (and $300+ for a fabric cap with passive electrodes???) And no one who says "look at all this stuff you can control with EEG!" has any projects of actually controlling anything with EEG, because it's extremely difficult. They just link to old papers where someone put together a control system slightly better than random chance. Would love to collaborate on something here if anyone has any interesting ideas, I think hobbyist EEG could be done a whole lot better. [1] https://github.com/neuroidss/FreeEEG32-beta https://github.com/neuroidss/FreeEEG32-beta [2] This one does implement impedance measurement which is nice.
- pedalpete 1y ago
  You're completely right on so many levels. We're not hobbyist level, I'm the co-founder of https://affectablesleep.com https://affectablesleep.com, so consumer grade sleep eeg, but the main point is to increase the brain's restorative function, not just measure sleep, your watch/ring is good enough for that. We spent a LOT of time designing our dry electrodes, which work well, but in our final hardware, we've still decided to go with active electrodes (amplified signal, for those not familiar). You definitely need an RLD as well. The ability to move a mouse with just occipital electrodes and ref and rld has been done quite a bit, and there are projects such as this (https://openelectronicslab.github.io/eeg-mouse/ https://openelectronicslab.github.io/eeg-mouse/) which show how it's done, as well as many published research papers. However, that isn't to suggest it's easy. As you've said, movement noise is a significant challenge. You'll need to be very still or else the electrode movement just causes a ton of noise. Your noise level comes less from the board than the electrode set-up. You mention [2] that does impedance measurement as well, but no link, can you post that?
blitzar 1y ago
Going to make a Doc Brown Mind Reading Helmet with this. https://www.instructables.com/Back-to-the-Future-Doc-Browns-Mind-Reading-Helmet/ https://www.instructables.com/Back-to-the-Future-Doc-Browns-...

25 points by Christiangmer 1y ago

pestatije 1y ago

> This Instructable was just published and is still pending review.

appleaday1 1y ago

Anyone interested in building full dive VR machines lol.

spzb 1y ago

Requires only $600 worth of additional equipment. "With Arduino" is doing some heavy lifting.

tsumnia 1y ago
Technically still "hobby"-level, I recently acquired the OpenBCI Ultracortex [1] and that's sitting at $3k [1] https://shop.openbci.com/products/the-complete-headset-eeg https://shop.openbci.com/products/the-complete-headset-eeg
- spzb 1y ago
  Everything's hobby level if you have deep enough pockets.
  - tsumnia 1y ago
    Everything's a hobby until you want to start making money with it

brookst 1y ago

I am so, so excited for the coming wave of non-invasive EEG-based BCI. It feels like the Internet did in the 80’s: obviously on the way, but frustratingly far away.

ThrowawayR2 1y ago

This user is the PiEEG spammer on an alternate account. The GitHub links go to the pieeg-club account, the Youtube link goes to a pieeg account, the more information link in step 6 goes to the pieeg site. Nearly every submission from this user promotes PiEEG in some way even though the URLs go to different legitimate sites (turning on showdead is recommended): https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Christiangmer https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Christiangmer He's built up a really impressive network of accounts and apparently the HN moderators haven't noticed him yet. Pierewsa - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Pierewsa https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Pierewsa ron_87 - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ron_87 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ron_87 marcelobaeb - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=marcelobaeb https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=marcelobaeb ildaron_ron - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ildaron_ron https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=ildaron_ron Marat_Japan - https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Marat_Japan https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=Marat_Japan Marat_1975 - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975 Marat_1975_ - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975_ https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Marat_1975_ Ildarmon - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Ildarmon https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Ildarmon Teraminsa - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Teraminsa https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Teraminsa Tiramisu-soup - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Tiramisu-soup https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=Tiramisu-soup GaredFagsss1 - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=GaredFagsss1 https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=GaredFagsss1 leisanrain - https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=leisanrain https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=leisanrain

appleaday1 1y ago
yeah this is why we vet everyone on the steamdeck sub and ask them for identification verification or atleast team size and stuff when people post their indie games to verify if they are really "indie" I have vetted like 30-50 man companies from UAE this way lol, always be asking questions and always see if something doesnt pass the sniff test.

synapsomorphy 1y ago

I fabbed a couple FreeEEG32 boards [1] recently and have half of a design for my own board put together. This technology CANNOT effectively move a mouse around on a screen today, much less control robots. If it could, they wouldn't have to implant things in paralyzed patients' brains just for basic computer control. I do think it's a very interesting field and there's a lot of improvements to be made. It's also extremely sensitive to noise (for best signal you can't be anywhere near mains power), any movement of facial muscles completely drowns out the brain signal, and getting electrodes prepped properly is time consuming and requires skill. And even in optimal conditions the SNR is not amazing. I'm looking into dry, active electrodes as well as inter-electrode impedance detection to solve electrode prep, and a driven right leg circuit to help SNR. TI ADS1299 (ADC used by this and most other hobbyist EEG boards - directly targeted at EEG thus fairly expensive) has impedance detection and a DRL circuit but best I can tell neither is used by most boards [2]. I'm also interested in pogo pin electrode arrays for increasing spatial resolution. Honestly most EEG boards seem, to me, more for show and money than anything else. No one even attempts to quantify noise levels, and they have very large margins for basically being breakout boards for ADC chips. (and $300+ for a fabric cap with passive electrodes???) And no one who says "look at all this stuff you can control with EEG!" has any projects of actually controlling anything with EEG, because it's extremely difficult. They just link to old papers where someone put together a control system slightly better than random chance. Would love to collaborate on something here if anyone has any interesting ideas, I think hobbyist EEG could be done a whole lot better. [1] https://github.com/neuroidss/FreeEEG32-beta https://github.com/neuroidss/FreeEEG32-beta [2] This one does implement impedance measurement which is nice.

pedalpete 1y ago
You're completely right on so many levels. We're not hobbyist level, I'm the co-founder of https://affectablesleep.com https://affectablesleep.com, so consumer grade sleep eeg, but the main point is to increase the brain's restorative function, not just measure sleep, your watch/ring is good enough for that. We spent a LOT of time designing our dry electrodes, which work well, but in our final hardware, we've still decided to go with active electrodes (amplified signal, for those not familiar). You definitely need an RLD as well. The ability to move a mouse with just occipital electrodes and ref and rld has been done quite a bit, and there are projects such as this (https://openelectronicslab.github.io/eeg-mouse/ https://openelectronicslab.github.io/eeg-mouse/) which show how it's done, as well as many published research papers. However, that isn't to suggest it's easy. As you've said, movement noise is a significant challenge. You'll need to be very still or else the electrode movement just causes a ton of noise. Your noise level comes less from the board than the electrode set-up. You mention [2] that does impedance measurement as well, but no link, can you post that?

blitzar 1y ago

Going to make a Doc Brown Mind Reading Helmet with this. https://www.instructables.com/Back-to-the-Future-Doc-Browns-Mind-Reading-Helmet/ https://www.instructables.com/Back-to-the-Future-Doc-Browns-...