4 ms·

I have never seen a large NGO or charity where there was not a large degree of either grift, goofing-off, or a strong whiff of outright fraud of one sort or ano

I have never seen a large NGO or charity where there was not a large degree of either grift, goofing-off, or a strong whiff of outright fraud of one sort or another. This has really coloured my view of all such orgs.

bionsystem 1y ago
Charity and non-profit look to me like the easiest way to finance corruption with tax evasion, while making yourself (esp. if you're a billionaire) look good.
- protocolture 1y ago
  I dunno, probably differs based on jurisdiction but the one thing that cant happen in my jurisdiction is people on the board directly profiting from the charity. They get well kept mind. But they never "own" the proceeds. IIRC one of the directors of mine was found with 3 corporate vehicles assigned to him. Now on the flipside, being upper management in the same charity was a goldmine. Upper 6 figure salary, no expectations, vendors taking you on substantial holidays and meals to get your business, low 6 figure bonus every 12 months. Different worlds tbh.
protocolture 1y ago
Yeah thats been my experience as well. Its also my experience that the reverse is true, small charities tend to be staffed by true believers who are working as hard as possible towards their goal.
- Propelloni 1y ago
  > Its also my experience that the reverse is true, small charities tend to be staffed by true believers who are working as hard as possible towards their goal. Same.
- nickdothutton 1y ago
  The volunteers are almost always the good souls in these places. It is the "professionals" that are the problem in my experience. All the way to the top.
  - protocolture 1y ago
    Depends on scale. I did some consulting for a separate branch of the same organisation. They only had ~4 full time staff, people who had been promoted out of the volunteer pool. There was a small amount of nepotism, but everyone getting paid was absolutely crazy about the purpose of the organisation. And IIRC the salaries were very low. Compare that to the branch I existed in, and it was chalk and cheese. Layers and layers of do nothing management drawing spectacular wages and finding ways to send themselves to fabulous parties and media events. There was a component of the business focused on rehabilitation, and it operated for 3-4 years with only 6 or so staff. They would go on fantastic rehab holidays to demonstrate the benefit of their programs. Unfortunately for those first years they struggled to find volunteers for their rehab programs, so they were constantly sending their own staff on tours of europe or sailing adventures etc.
dghlsakjg 1y ago
To be fair, this describes a large percentage of ALL large human organizations, including for profit, educational, and government entities.
Pet_Ant 1y ago
Sorry but no, even medium-sized, enterprise doesn't have the exact problems that people complain about government. I can share stories with government employees and we have the same dynamics. Large dis-organizations with many stakeholders have the same dynamics. Governments at least are inclined to help people whereas enterprises aren't.
- protocolture 1y ago
  My mate in government and I share stories all the time. But my "And in this crazy company we had multiple competing teams with different management responsible for IT infrastructure" stories pale in comparison with his "Well we have 12 teams in 3 separate lines of business technically spanning 2 ministries" stories.

bionsystem 1y ago

Charity and non-profit look to me like the easiest way to finance corruption with tax evasion, while making yourself (esp. if you're a billionaire) look good.

protocolture 1y ago
I dunno, probably differs based on jurisdiction but the one thing that cant happen in my jurisdiction is people on the board directly profiting from the charity. They get well kept mind. But they never "own" the proceeds. IIRC one of the directors of mine was found with 3 corporate vehicles assigned to him. Now on the flipside, being upper management in the same charity was a goldmine. Upper 6 figure salary, no expectations, vendors taking you on substantial holidays and meals to get your business, low 6 figure bonus every 12 months. Different worlds tbh.

protocolture 1y ago

Yeah thats been my experience as well. Its also my experience that the reverse is true, small charities tend to be staffed by true believers who are working as hard as possible towards their goal.

Propelloni 1y ago
> Its also my experience that the reverse is true, small charities tend to be staffed by true believers who are working as hard as possible towards their goal. Same.
nickdothutton 1y ago
The volunteers are almost always the good souls in these places. It is the "professionals" that are the problem in my experience. All the way to the top.
- protocolture 1y ago
  Depends on scale. I did some consulting for a separate branch of the same organisation. They only had ~4 full time staff, people who had been promoted out of the volunteer pool. There was a small amount of nepotism, but everyone getting paid was absolutely crazy about the purpose of the organisation. And IIRC the salaries were very low. Compare that to the branch I existed in, and it was chalk and cheese. Layers and layers of do nothing management drawing spectacular wages and finding ways to send themselves to fabulous parties and media events. There was a component of the business focused on rehabilitation, and it operated for 3-4 years with only 6 or so staff. They would go on fantastic rehab holidays to demonstrate the benefit of their programs. Unfortunately for those first years they struggled to find volunteers for their rehab programs, so they were constantly sending their own staff on tours of europe or sailing adventures etc.

dghlsakjg 1y ago

To be fair, this describes a large percentage of ALL large human organizations, including for profit, educational, and government entities.

Pet_Ant 1y ago

Sorry but no, even medium-sized, enterprise doesn't have the exact problems that people complain about government. I can share stories with government employees and we have the same dynamics. Large dis-organizations with many stakeholders have the same dynamics. Governments at least are inclined to help people whereas enterprises aren't.

protocolture 1y ago
My mate in government and I share stories all the time. But my "And in this crazy company we had multiple competing teams with different management responsible for IT infrastructure" stories pale in comparison with his "Well we have 12 teams in 3 separate lines of business technically spanning 2 ministries" stories.