4 ms·

I remember when I initially read these emails (the thread is from last year), my first though was, "I'm glad that I don't have to work with these people." Perh

by paul 18y ago

I remember when I initially read these emails (the thread is from last year), my first though was, "I'm glad that I don't have to work with these people." Perhaps this is unfair since they are just venting (and not all of the emails were in this category, some were reasonable), but there's something about their attitude that is just very unappealing. I can't quite put my finger on it though... Something about working at big companies seems to turn many people into whiny children. I think it's because they aren't really responsible for anything. Unfortunately, Google's transition into "yet another big company" is inevitable at this point. If you take the same fundamental structure as every other big company, and hire the same people as the other big companies, then you shouldn't be surprised when you end up looking like every other big company.

mark_h 18y ago
Something about working at big companies seems to turn many people into whiny children. I think it's because they aren't really responsible for anything. I think you've just nailed something I've been observing at my own place of employment, thank you! To lack-of-responsibility, I would also add: security in the job. It's comfortable enough and you can get by without too much exertion, so there's little motivation to either leave or work harder. I certainly don't work in an extreme case of that, but your hypothesis resonated.
prakash 18y ago
What would you do different in terms of structure of a large company? Also who would you hire for large companies?
wheels 18y ago
The other side of things, kind of rounding out the child-like analogy, is that the exposure to opportunity is limited similarly to the exposure to responsibility. Engineering hire number 14,162 might make it to middle management if [s]he sticks around long enough. If you combine this with the trajectory that a lot of smart folks end up on -- home, college, grad-school, large corporation -- I think there's a natural disenfranchisement when kids that thought they were going to change the world and be astronauts when they grew up realize that they're staring down a few decades of project management meetings and internal bureaucracy. Added to a smooth transition from their parents to their company taking care of all of the hard parts of life, it does lead to an odd form of young adulthood where a lot of folks are too afraid of deviating from the prescribed path to break out and do something that's more fulfilling to them.
far33d 18y ago
I was really hoping to hear some insight from these ex-employees about the google culture to see how it compares to my disillusionment with a "cool" big company. Instead, most of the comments (I couldn't get through all of them) were whining about benefits, pay, and snack stations. Seriously? As a friend of mine tweeted the other day about my old company - "people are getting laid off. stop complaining about the lack of free beer this friday".
- redrobot5050 18y ago
  I remember reading an article by Neil Strauss in Rolling Stone covering Jenna Jamison, the notorious adult film star and the adult industry in general. Since Neil was sent "on set" while Jenna was filming, a lot of the article details him talking to people that work in the industry (journeyman/freelance make up artists, camera men, sound guys, Male "Actors"). One thing that stuck out to Neil that he drew attention to is what these guys bullshitted about at work: Sports. Kids. Health Care. Wages. Tax tips (since they're all contractors). The reason I bring this up is to make this point: No matter how mundane or bizarre your industry, people still have the same genuine needs. A company that addresses those needs in a superb factor will have loyal employees. If Google is subpar in salary and puts people in jobs that're menial and they're overqualified for them, they will get bored and they will leave. I can't simplify it any more than that. Any company with 18,000 employees can't rely on "cool" to motivate. For an easy 17,000 of those workers, money (or stock options) is the biggest motivator. A lot can be said about this, but I'll go out on this note: Not all of the world's greatest problem solvers are in their mid-20s and are motivated by the "cool" factor of a web app and think in Python. The majority of people, in any field, are motivated by money. Microsoft pays in the 68th percentile for a reason. You'll never be rich, but you'll always be comfortable. And yes, intelligent 24 year old Standford CS grad should feel like there's something more to life than supporting Google AdWords code, which, according to other internet rants, is simply a frustrating experience.
  - far33d 18y ago
    Exactly - I expected more of the frustration to be about the menial work and how people weren't feeling motivated, not how annoyed they were when google skimped on snacks.

by paul 18y ago

mark_h 18y ago

Something about working at big companies seems to turn many people into whiny children. I think it's because they aren't really responsible for anything. I think you've just nailed something I've been observing at my own place of employment, thank you! To lack-of-responsibility, I would also add: security in the job. It's comfortable enough and you can get by without too much exertion, so there's little motivation to either leave or work harder. I certainly don't work in an extreme case of that, but your hypothesis resonated.

prakash 18y ago

What would you do different in terms of structure of a large company? Also who would you hire for large companies?

wheels 18y ago

The other side of things, kind of rounding out the child-like analogy, is that the exposure to opportunity is limited similarly to the exposure to responsibility. Engineering hire number 14,162 might make it to middle management if [s]he sticks around long enough. If you combine this with the trajectory that a lot of smart folks end up on -- home, college, grad-school, large corporation -- I think there's a natural disenfranchisement when kids that thought they were going to change the world and be astronauts when they grew up realize that they're staring down a few decades of project management meetings and internal bureaucracy. Added to a smooth transition from their parents to their company taking care of all of the hard parts of life, it does lead to an odd form of young adulthood where a lot of folks are too afraid of deviating from the prescribed path to break out and do something that's more fulfilling to them.

far33d 18y ago

I was really hoping to hear some insight from these ex-employees about the google culture to see how it compares to my disillusionment with a "cool" big company. Instead, most of the comments (I couldn't get through all of them) were whining about benefits, pay, and snack stations. Seriously? As a friend of mine tweeted the other day about my old company - "people are getting laid off. stop complaining about the lack of free beer this friday".

redrobot5050 18y ago
I remember reading an article by Neil Strauss in Rolling Stone covering Jenna Jamison, the notorious adult film star and the adult industry in general. Since Neil was sent "on set" while Jenna was filming, a lot of the article details him talking to people that work in the industry (journeyman/freelance make up artists, camera men, sound guys, Male "Actors"). One thing that stuck out to Neil that he drew attention to is what these guys bullshitted about at work: Sports. Kids. Health Care. Wages. Tax tips (since they're all contractors). The reason I bring this up is to make this point: No matter how mundane or bizarre your industry, people still have the same genuine needs. A company that addresses those needs in a superb factor will have loyal employees. If Google is subpar in salary and puts people in jobs that're menial and they're overqualified for them, they will get bored and they will leave. I can't simplify it any more than that. Any company with 18,000 employees can't rely on "cool" to motivate. For an easy 17,000 of those workers, money (or stock options) is the biggest motivator. A lot can be said about this, but I'll go out on this note: Not all of the world's greatest problem solvers are in their mid-20s and are motivated by the "cool" factor of a web app and think in Python. The majority of people, in any field, are motivated by money. Microsoft pays in the 68th percentile for a reason. You'll never be rich, but you'll always be comfortable. And yes, intelligent 24 year old Standford CS grad should feel like there's something more to life than supporting Google AdWords code, which, according to other internet rants, is simply a frustrating experience.
- far33d 18y ago
  Exactly - I expected more of the frustration to be about the menial work and how people weren't feeling motivated, not how annoyed they were when google skimped on snacks.