4 ms·

You people want to just build South Africa around here all over again, don’t you? Just a reminder: it works well until it does not.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 1y ago
[flagged]
- tptacek 1y ago
  This is an argument made in deeply bad faith, and the way I know that is that you yourself used to write here about the fact pattern "urbanists" are working within. Suburban enclaves (and their housing patterns) were originally created by segregation (including, indirectly, by de facto segregation in response to de jure desegregation). That same process hollowed out inner city neighborhoods that were disinvested for decades. Meanwhile: the "urbanists" you're deriding are trying to open up residential development in exactly those parts of cities everyone wants to move to, including desirable inner-ring suburbs. You're just throwing bombs here. Why be like this? There are other places you can (and do) write this kind of stuff in, where it doesn't drag HN threads down into the muck.
  - rayiner 1y ago
    My argument is fully made in good faith hoping urbanists will confront their own revealed preferences. If you’re an urbanist, why wouldn’t you want to raise a family in a city like Baltimore that spends $21,000 per student annually, where you can afford a 3-4BR townhome near transit and shopping? I used to live in New Rochelle, NY near the Metro North station. It’s walkable and urban, with great transit. The school district spends $25,000/student, compared to $15,000/student in my Maryland suburb. But housing in New Rochelle is quite affordable considering it’s the NYC Metro area—even cheaper than my suburb. Why don’t the urbanists raise their families there?
    - tptacek 1y ago
      This isn't responsive to what I wrote. It simply repeats what you already wrote.
      - rayiner 1y ago
        It’s responsive because it addresses the pretext of “disinvestment” and other abstractions urbanists like to use to justify their choices. A lot of urbanism boils down to wanting dense, walkable cities with transit, parks, and shopping, but not wanting to live in the myriad such cities that are already like that because of who else lives there. They want the layout and infrastructure of downtown baltimore or center city philadelphia, but with the population of Brookline, MA.
        tptacek 1y ago
        Again, you're not engaging with anything I wrote.
        rayiner 1y ago
        You’re not engaging with what I wrote. Why don’t urbanists just move to North Charles in Baltimore instead of trying to turn suburban Maryland into the same thing? It’s not “disinvestment.”
    - pcwalton 1y ago
      But urbanists do live in cities? San Francisco proper is, like, the origin of the YIMBY movement. Searching for "baltimore yimby" on Google brings up a lot of advocacy, like this: https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/housing/baltimore-zoning-housing-yimby-54TYZN35CZACDN3SRQJBJ6L6RE/ https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/housing/baltimo...
      - rayiner 1y ago
        Some of them do. But their premise is that there’s a large, unmet demand for dense, walkable neighborhoods in which to raise families. But there are tons of dense, walkable neighborhoods all over the country where prices and demand are quite low. Why the focus on more building and upzoning when you could buy existing stock? There’s a big urbanist movement in the DC area, but it’s focused on trying to upzone Northern VA and Montgomery County, MD. Meanwhile, most of the Maryland side of the Metro network is underutilized. Urbanists would rather pay triple to try and turn Tysons Corner, VA into an urban area.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

rayiner 1y ago

[flagged]

tptacek 1y ago
This is an argument made in deeply bad faith, and the way I know that is that you yourself used to write here about the fact pattern "urbanists" are working within. Suburban enclaves (and their housing patterns) were originally created by segregation (including, indirectly, by de facto segregation in response to de jure desegregation). That same process hollowed out inner city neighborhoods that were disinvested for decades. Meanwhile: the "urbanists" you're deriding are trying to open up residential development in exactly those parts of cities everyone wants to move to, including desirable inner-ring suburbs. You're just throwing bombs here. Why be like this? There are other places you can (and do) write this kind of stuff in, where it doesn't drag HN threads down into the muck.
- rayiner 1y ago
  My argument is fully made in good faith hoping urbanists will confront their own revealed preferences. If you’re an urbanist, why wouldn’t you want to raise a family in a city like Baltimore that spends $21,000 per student annually, where you can afford a 3-4BR townhome near transit and shopping? I used to live in New Rochelle, NY near the Metro North station. It’s walkable and urban, with great transit. The school district spends $25,000/student, compared to $15,000/student in my Maryland suburb. But housing in New Rochelle is quite affordable considering it’s the NYC Metro area—even cheaper than my suburb. Why don’t the urbanists raise their families there?
  - tptacek 1y ago
    This isn't responsive to what I wrote. It simply repeats what you already wrote.
    - rayiner 1y ago
      It’s responsive because it addresses the pretext of “disinvestment” and other abstractions urbanists like to use to justify their choices. A lot of urbanism boils down to wanting dense, walkable cities with transit, parks, and shopping, but not wanting to live in the myriad such cities that are already like that because of who else lives there. They want the layout and infrastructure of downtown baltimore or center city philadelphia, but with the population of Brookline, MA.
      - tptacek 1y ago
        Again, you're not engaging with anything I wrote.
        rayiner 1y ago
        You’re not engaging with what I wrote. Why don’t urbanists just move to North Charles in Baltimore instead of trying to turn suburban Maryland into the same thing? It’s not “disinvestment.”
  - pcwalton 1y ago
    But urbanists do live in cities? San Francisco proper is, like, the origin of the YIMBY movement. Searching for "baltimore yimby" on Google brings up a lot of advocacy, like this: https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/housing/baltimore-zoning-housing-yimby-54TYZN35CZACDN3SRQJBJ6L6RE/ https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/community/housing/baltimo...
    - rayiner 1y ago
      Some of them do. But their premise is that there’s a large, unmet demand for dense, walkable neighborhoods in which to raise families. But there are tons of dense, walkable neighborhoods all over the country where prices and demand are quite low. Why the focus on more building and upzoning when you could buy existing stock? There’s a big urbanist movement in the DC area, but it’s focused on trying to upzone Northern VA and Montgomery County, MD. Meanwhile, most of the Maryland side of the Metro network is underutilized. Urbanists would rather pay triple to try and turn Tysons Corner, VA into an urban area.