7 ms·

Congestion isn't limited to cars. My pregnant wife was hit yesterday in SoHo in broad daylight by a delivery driver on an e-bike. He ran a redlight. He hit her

by RhysU 1y ago

Congestion isn't limited to cars. My pregnant wife was hit yesterday in SoHo in broad daylight by a delivery driver on an e-bike. He ran a redlight. He hit her in a crosswalk. She was wearing a bright orange dress. She was not on a phone or listening to music. She went flying ass over teakettle. We spent 6 hours in the ER yesterday evening to make sure our unborn baby was okay. Fortunately, everyone is OK despite her being banged up. The goddamn lawlessness of electric bikes is a consequence of NYC implicitly encouraging their illegal use. Meanwhile, I get to pay $9 MORE to drive my licensed, registered, insured vehicle on increasingly narrow roads filled with increasingly negligent 2-wheeled asshats because it's the preferred business model.

bryanlarsen 1y ago
In other forums there are lots of complaints about the NYC crackdown on e-bikes. NYC has taken steps to discourage their use. Maybe not enough, but definitely more than in most other parts of the country.
- RhysU 1y ago
  Stand on a corner in NYC and count the moving violations the e-bikes commit. Running lights and stops. Going the wrong way. Etc. These aren't subtle infractions of the law. Tell me why automated traffic enforcement cameras don't target them. As a motorcyclist, e-bikes piss me off to no end.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    It would be interesting to force eBikes to be registered which the owner then receives a number plate that must be placed on the bike. The owner would be subject to fines any rider of the bike incurs unless the bike is reported stolen so that the video is proven to be after the bike was stolen. Gotta give those automated systems something to use
  - potato3732842 1y ago
    >These aren't subtle infractions of the law. Tell me why automated traffic enforcement cameras don't target them. Lawyers have a saying about blood and stones. Government doesn't like to talk in those terms because they know it's bad optics but...
    - RhysU 1y ago
      For commercial use, send the fines back to the restaurant/business. For private use, rescind the license for non-payment. For extra fun, surcharge the dope ordering DoorDash when his e-bike driver breaks the law. Tips will dry up. Problem solved. This is easy.
  - Mawr 1y ago
    > Tell me why automated traffic enforcement cameras don't target them. Beyond the obvious lack of registration plates, it's basic physics. A fat guy on an e-bike is what, 100+30kg of mass? How fast do they go, maybe 35km/h (22mph) tops? That gives us the kinetic energy of roughly 6242J. Let's compare with a silly lightweight 1,400kg car + 100kg driver moving at the same speed: 72,030J - 11 times greater. At 50km/h (31mph) that becomes 144,907J - 23 times greater. 70km/h (43mph)? 46 times. 100km/h (62mph)? 94. So the worst case possible for an ebike compared to the best case for a car has the car be 11 times more dangerous. More realistically, a car will be over 20 times more dangerous, with essentially infinite potential for more (do cars in cities travel at 31mph tops?). Now, in another comment [1] you went ahead and said speed limits are set too low and mild speeding is all good and fine. Does it still seem so? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43996494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43996494
    - hollerith 1y ago
      When walking on the sidewalks near my home, I don't fear being hit by fast-moving cars.
    - AStonesThrow 1y ago
      Look, I don't care if there's a spherical cow in a vacuum or a witch with a broomstick going at 0.98c, your fat guy on an e-bike can endanger people and property if he's in the street. Whatever $OPERATOR on $CONVEYANCE at $SPEED works out to, I would hope that each jurisdiction has a vested interest in safety on their roads. Indeed, the lack of registration plates, and the lack of licensing is a huge impediment. I find that motorists with licenses tend to obey all relevant traffic laws. They are not prone to running red lights or swerving around or otherwise operating their cars dangerously. And I attribute this behavior mostly to the fact that driving is a privilege that can be restricted or revoked. If you fine a pedestrian for jaywalking then they can pay that fine or not. You cannot prevent a pedestrian from walking around in the street. You apparently cannot prevent people from riding bikes or scooters, either. Since there is no licensing and no "privilege" to do so, it's more or less anything-goes on the streets with such conveyances. Nevertheless, I've been that fat guy on an electric scooter, and I'm telling you, it would not be surprising to maim or kill a vulnerable pedestrian (and my own self) if I'm going along at 17mph in the road. Perhaps the cameras can't catch or target them, but hopefully some enforcement can be brought to bear on such dangerous activity.
rimunroe 1y ago
> Meanwhile, I get to pay $9 MORE to drive my licensed, registered, insured vehicle on increasingly narrow roads filled with increasingly negligent 2-wheeled asshats because it's the preferred business model. It sounds like measures to limit the danger of electric bikes might be warranted, but that’s a separate issue. Even if electric bikes are a problem I’d be shocked if they came anywhere close to causing the pedestrian fatality rate of cars (even when controlled by frequency of use) in an urban environment, not to mentioni the additional impacts of things like emissions (including non-tailpipe), noise, space, etc. of cars. I don’t know much about motorcycle statistics. I can imagine the group that rides motorcycles might be less likely to hit pedestrians than those of e-bike riders, but I don’t know. If we have to choose only one of these problems to tackle at a time—which we don’t!—I’d rather they tackle the one which is killing hundreds of people a year.
Vinnl 1y ago
Oof, that sucks. Glad that delivery driver wasn't in a car though! Could've ended much worse.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Anything could be worse. Doesn't mean it's an excuse for bad behavior.
  - Vinnl 1y ago
    Was absolutely not intended as an excuse for bad behaviour. I just care about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater: just because someone on an e-bike displays bad behaviour, it's still preferable to have people switch from cars to e-bikes.
- RhysU 1y ago
  Yeah, just imagine. I did. For hours yesterday evening I imagined. Had a car killed my wife or unborn child, there would have been a legal trail and insurance. Had the e-bike killed my wife or unborn child, there was neither. I doubt I could ever find the killer of the unborn child if the baby died later due to injuries-- there's neither license nor registration on an e-bike. Pushing powered transportation into the unregulated, uninsured space is madness.
  - mvid 1y ago
    You would likely be unhappy if you saw the outcomes of almost all vehicle manslaughter cases. It’s the easiest way to kill someone and get away with it consequence free
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - RhysU 1y ago
      This can change. Having been a juror on a civil trial against the MTA, I assure you that the New York public is perfectly willing to hold people accountable for injury. Drunk driving was reduced over my lifetime [1] by calling attention to it (e.g. MADD), shaming the practice, lowering BAC thresholds, and increasing enforcement. Similar approaches could be done for pedestrian injury by vehicles. Sure, it takes more time (and does not scam $9 from my pocket in the meantime) but public behavior can be changed. [1] https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/drunk-driving-statistics/drunk-driving-fatality-statistics/ https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/drunk-driv...
jwiearjeilj 1y ago
[flagged]
jcranmer 1y ago
Were that delivery driver using a car instead of a bike, then your wife would likely be dead instead of in the ER. (At least in the US, having a driver's license is in no way, shape, or form an indication that the driver is capable of driving correctly, much less their willingness to do so.)
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- kortilla 1y ago
  Car drivers are very routinely punished for running red lights. That is far less common than cyclists doing it.
  - jcranmer 1y ago
    I have seen as many car drivers punished for running a red light as I have seen cyclists running one--zero in both cases. Enforcement of traffic laws is painfully lax.
    - RhysU 1y ago
      Automatic cameras send tickets for cars running redlights in NYC: https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-violations.page# https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-v...
  - wpm 1y ago
    Yes, a $100 ticket or whatever, horrible punishment.
    - kortilla 1y ago
      It ends up being several hundred dollars in California and adds a point to your license (too many causes suspension).
      - 1y ago

by RhysU 1y ago

bryanlarsen 1y ago

In other forums there are lots of complaints about the NYC crackdown on e-bikes. NYC has taken steps to discourage their use. Maybe not enough, but definitely more than in most other parts of the country.

RhysU 1y ago
Stand on a corner in NYC and count the moving violations the e-bikes commit. Running lights and stops. Going the wrong way. Etc. These aren't subtle infractions of the law. Tell me why automated traffic enforcement cameras don't target them. As a motorcyclist, e-bikes piss me off to no end.
- dylan604 1y ago
  It would be interesting to force eBikes to be registered which the owner then receives a number plate that must be placed on the bike. The owner would be subject to fines any rider of the bike incurs unless the bike is reported stolen so that the video is proven to be after the bike was stolen. Gotta give those automated systems something to use
- potato3732842 1y ago
  >These aren't subtle infractions of the law. Tell me why automated traffic enforcement cameras don't target them. Lawyers have a saying about blood and stones. Government doesn't like to talk in those terms because they know it's bad optics but...
  - RhysU 1y ago
    For commercial use, send the fines back to the restaurant/business. For private use, rescind the license for non-payment. For extra fun, surcharge the dope ordering DoorDash when his e-bike driver breaks the law. Tips will dry up. Problem solved. This is easy.
- Mawr 1y ago
  > Tell me why automated traffic enforcement cameras don't target them. Beyond the obvious lack of registration plates, it's basic physics. A fat guy on an e-bike is what, 100+30kg of mass? How fast do they go, maybe 35km/h (22mph) tops? That gives us the kinetic energy of roughly 6242J. Let's compare with a silly lightweight 1,400kg car + 100kg driver moving at the same speed: 72,030J - 11 times greater. At 50km/h (31mph) that becomes 144,907J - 23 times greater. 70km/h (43mph)? 46 times. 100km/h (62mph)? 94. So the worst case possible for an ebike compared to the best case for a car has the car be 11 times more dangerous. More realistically, a car will be over 20 times more dangerous, with essentially infinite potential for more (do cars in cities travel at 31mph tops?). Now, in another comment [1] you went ahead and said speed limits are set too low and mild speeding is all good and fine. Does it still seem so? [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43996494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43996494
  - hollerith 1y ago
    When walking on the sidewalks near my home, I don't fear being hit by fast-moving cars.
  - AStonesThrow 1y ago
    Look, I don't care if there's a spherical cow in a vacuum or a witch with a broomstick going at 0.98c, your fat guy on an e-bike can endanger people and property if he's in the street. Whatever $OPERATOR on $CONVEYANCE at $SPEED works out to, I would hope that each jurisdiction has a vested interest in safety on their roads. Indeed, the lack of registration plates, and the lack of licensing is a huge impediment. I find that motorists with licenses tend to obey all relevant traffic laws. They are not prone to running red lights or swerving around or otherwise operating their cars dangerously. And I attribute this behavior mostly to the fact that driving is a privilege that can be restricted or revoked. If you fine a pedestrian for jaywalking then they can pay that fine or not. You cannot prevent a pedestrian from walking around in the street. You apparently cannot prevent people from riding bikes or scooters, either. Since there is no licensing and no "privilege" to do so, it's more or less anything-goes on the streets with such conveyances. Nevertheless, I've been that fat guy on an electric scooter, and I'm telling you, it would not be surprising to maim or kill a vulnerable pedestrian (and my own self) if I'm going along at 17mph in the road. Perhaps the cameras can't catch or target them, but hopefully some enforcement can be brought to bear on such dangerous activity.

rimunroe 1y ago

> Meanwhile, I get to pay $9 MORE to drive my licensed, registered, insured vehicle on increasingly narrow roads filled with increasingly negligent 2-wheeled asshats because it's the preferred business model. It sounds like measures to limit the danger of electric bikes might be warranted, but that’s a separate issue. Even if electric bikes are a problem I’d be shocked if they came anywhere close to causing the pedestrian fatality rate of cars (even when controlled by frequency of use) in an urban environment, not to mentioni the additional impacts of things like emissions (including non-tailpipe), noise, space, etc. of cars. I don’t know much about motorcycle statistics. I can imagine the group that rides motorcycles might be less likely to hit pedestrians than those of e-bike riders, but I don’t know. If we have to choose only one of these problems to tackle at a time—which we don’t!—I’d rather they tackle the one which is killing hundreds of people a year.

Vinnl 1y ago

Oof, that sucks. Glad that delivery driver wasn't in a car though! Could've ended much worse.

SoftTalker 1y ago
Anything could be worse. Doesn't mean it's an excuse for bad behavior.
- Vinnl 1y ago
  Was absolutely not intended as an excuse for bad behaviour. I just care about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater: just because someone on an e-bike displays bad behaviour, it's still preferable to have people switch from cars to e-bikes.
RhysU 1y ago
Yeah, just imagine. I did. For hours yesterday evening I imagined. Had a car killed my wife or unborn child, there would have been a legal trail and insurance. Had the e-bike killed my wife or unborn child, there was neither. I doubt I could ever find the killer of the unborn child if the baby died later due to injuries-- there's neither license nor registration on an e-bike. Pushing powered transportation into the unregulated, uninsured space is madness.
- mvid 1y ago
  You would likely be unhappy if you saw the outcomes of almost all vehicle manslaughter cases. It’s the easiest way to kill someone and get away with it consequence free
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - RhysU 1y ago
    This can change. Having been a juror on a civil trial against the MTA, I assure you that the New York public is perfectly willing to hold people accountable for injury. Drunk driving was reduced over my lifetime [1] by calling attention to it (e.g. MADD), shaming the practice, lowering BAC thresholds, and increasing enforcement. Similar approaches could be done for pedestrian injury by vehicles. Sure, it takes more time (and does not scam $9 from my pocket in the meantime) but public behavior can be changed. [1] https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/drunk-driving-statistics/drunk-driving-fatality-statistics/ https://www.responsibility.org/alcohol-statistics/drunk-driv...

jwiearjeilj 1y ago

[flagged]

jcranmer 1y ago

Were that delivery driver using a car instead of a bike, then your wife would likely be dead instead of in the ER. (At least in the US, having a driver's license is in no way, shape, or form an indication that the driver is capable of driving correctly, much less their willingness to do so.)

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
kortilla 1y ago
Car drivers are very routinely punished for running red lights. That is far less common than cyclists doing it.
- jcranmer 1y ago
  I have seen as many car drivers punished for running a red light as I have seen cyclists running one--zero in both cases. Enforcement of traffic laws is painfully lax.
  - RhysU 1y ago
    Automatic cameras send tickets for cars running redlights in NYC: https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-violations.page# https://www.nyc.gov/site/finance/vehicles/red-light-camera-v...
- wpm 1y ago
  Yes, a $100 ticket or whatever, horrible punishment.
  - kortilla 1y ago
    It ends up being several hundred dollars in California and adds a point to your license (too many causes suspension).
    - 1y ago