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> When you choose an eccentric lifestyle Many "eccentric" lifestyles are not chosen. For instance not owning a smartphone or not having access to power easily
by pyrale 1y ago
> When you choose an eccentric lifestyle
Many "eccentric" lifestyles are not chosen.
For instance not owning a smartphone or not having access to power easily is not necessarily limited to well-off tech-savv hipsters who want to make a statement, homeless people, older people in less connected areas or people in developing countries can also be in that situation.
When you make your services depend on specific access, and you give people without it no escape hatch, your service becoming successful usually means worsening access for people that have fewer means to adapt.
- modeless 1y agoHomeless people get free smartphones and free service in the US. Living in very rural areas is in fact a lifestyle choice. Not all choices need to be subsidized.
- pyrale 1y ago> Not all choices need to be subsidized. Interesting choice of vocabulary. You could decide not to serve people without also describing them as freeloaders in order to feel morally righteous about your choice.
- modeless 1y agoPeople choosing to live in rural areas aren't freeloaders. Until they demand the rest of us subsidize them. The demand for subsidies is what makes a freeloader, not the lifestyle choice.
- jjulius 1y ago>Until they demand the rest of us subsidize them. I think the discussion is less around "subsidizing" them and more why requiring a cellphone with 2FA to exist and do basic things is kinda stupid.
- pyrale 1y agoMy original message was simply here to remind people that technical decisions we make have consequences on who can use our services. You were the one introducing this vocabulary (as well as claiming everyone living there does it by choice). Now you try to move the debate again with people "demanding" stuff. None of this vocabulary or framing exists in the original article, or in mine. Let me clarify the question: why do you insist on framing this debate in a way that makes a moral claim about people's character?
- dheera 1y agoWe should support the rural lifestyle choice. For one, the food you eat comes from there.
- modeless 1y agoFood doesn't come from remote mountainous areas. Farm fields may not have cell service but living way out there isn't required even for farmers. I grew up on a farm so it's funny when people on the internet try to educate me about farms as if I've never heard of them.
- jjulius 1y ago>Food doesn't come from remote mountainous areas. I must be imagining the farms that I pass in the mountains in the middle of nowhere when I go backpacking. Surely your argument isn't, "My farm was here, so it's impossible for other farms to be in different locales"?
- modeless 1y agoSurely you aren't arguing "I once saw a farm in the mountains, therefore small remote mountain farms are critical to our food supply"?
- jjulius 1y agoThe large trucks being loaded with crops for delivery elsewhere should suggest that it contributes to the greater food supply, yes. Further... >I once... My phrasing did not suggest "one time" (the phrase was "I pass", suggesting regularity), and it's not just one single farm, it's a few, and I've passed them many times. I have to agree with someone else[1] about your using vocabulary that others haven't introduced - I question whether or not a good faith discussion can be had because of that. Have a good one! [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43985331 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43985331
- 1y ago
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- hedora 1y agoExactly! Why should I subsidize sewers in town?
- jaoane 1y ago[flagged]
- McGlockenshire 1y ago> Homeless people get free smartphones and free service in the US Recently former homeless person here. The Republicans in Congress refused to renew the Lifeline program in 2023 and the replacement is objectively worse in every single way. > Not all choices need to be subsidized. Ah yes, being homeless, a choice. I hope it never happens to you.
- glowiefedposter 1y agoHobo News
- arp242 1y agoIt just saddens me that you can be so devoid of empathy.
- modeless 1y agoThis kind of performative "empathy" people talk about in online forums is not true empathy. It's frequently the case that prioritizing this fake "empathy" results in bad outcomes. It saddens me when people use "empathy" to justify policy with strongly negative overall consequences. It's how you end up with, for example, the disaster zone that large chunks of San Francisco were before Lurie started cleaning up a few months ago. Or the deplorable state of our healthcare system.
- arp242 1y agoYou're bringing in all sorts of unrelated things here. The simple reality is that expecting a 70-year old to leave their entire life behind and move to the city just because of a relatively simple issue like this, is deeply and profoundly unemphatic. As is the general principle of not accepting that some people may want to choose a slightly different life from what you might choose for yourself. No one is asking the world here. These are small accommodations at best.
- modeless 1y agoNobody's asking them to leave their life behind! Talk about bringing in unrelated things! I'm saying we should recognize that lifestyle choices have consequences and that's OK. Not every consequence needs mitigation by third parties. Having to use a TOTP app and/or make a 20 minute trip into town to use some web services is not an unacceptable price to pay for the lifestyle choice of living in a remote area, and we shouldn't be vilifying people or branding them "devoid of empathy" for not prioritizing support for that use case over other, higher impact things they could do to improve their products.