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Median income for a family in Brookline: $122,000. Median home price: $1.19 million. Judging by the homogenous demographics, almost no refugees or recent immigr

Median income for a family in Brookline: $122,000. Median home price: $1.19 million. Judging by the homogenous demographics, almost no refugees or recent immigrants other than perhaps high-skilled Boston tech and education sector workers. It’s easy to create a city that works for families as long as you use economic redlining to exclude everyone who suffers from the social problems that affect every major U.S. city.

ty6853 2y ago
Family friendly trends pretty hard with homogenous demographics. Differences breed contempt, or just displays the inability to empathize with a different way of life. A sad fact of life. People with kids tend to regress back to their familiar mothership when the kids arrive. It's instinctual protection mechanism for their children.
- rayiner 2y ago
  There’s two different issues. In the US, demographics is highly correlated with other factors. Even the most progressive parents will self-segregate to get away from these issues (under the pretext of finding a “good school district”), which in practice means the suburbs. Apart from that, cultural differences become much more salient when you’re a parent. Because culture is how we transmit our values—what we believe about how to live a good and successful life—to our children. Culture is also highly correlated with demographics and also is a source of conflict. My kids attend a private school with affluent white and black kids (about 2/3 and 1/3). The neighboring supermajority-black county is richer than our supermajority-white county, so there are no socioeconomic divides. But there’s quite a bit of racial conflict nonetheless. A couple of kids in my daughter’s friend group wanted to kick her out of a running group chat because they wanted to make it black-only (she looks fully south asian though she’s half white). My daughter is far more accepted by her white friends who aren’t socialized from an early age to have a sense of racial identity/group solidarity. White/asian places like Brookline have cultural problems as well. My high school was about 30% asian, the remainder white (all affluent and educated). There was a lot of conflict over cheating and the school being a “pressure cooker” that boiled down to conflict between the asian immigrant proclivity of academically grinding to get ahead and the WASP mentality of raising “well rounded” students with diverse interests. Studies show that white families move out of school districts as asian families move in: https://www.the74million.org/article/fear-of-competition-research-shows-that-when-asian-students-move-in-white-families-move-out/ https://www.the74million.org/article/fear-of-competition-res.... This is true even though, statistically, asians are more affluent than whites, much less likely to be arrested or imprisoned, etc. Parenthood is where the rubber really hits the road in terms of any sociological preconceptions people may have. It’s the time when you’re faced with applying those ideas in practice in a situation that will have consequences for what you hold most dear.
  - ty6853 2y ago
    It also doesn't help that any perceived error in raising a child results in a phone call to CPS (by literally anyone) and possibly you and your children being terrorized, and much of this perception is cultural. The more cultural diversity, the more chance you come across that single person that doesn't approve of the way you do it. This has happened over as little as a kid walking home alone or playing at the park while the mom is at an interview. I've partially chosen to raise my family in a place with people like me because I know the neighbor kids drive trucks, work in construction, explore the backcountry on dirt bikes, etc from a very young age and I don't have to worry about the local nazi mom sending the child snatchers for the sin of a child having some independence.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      Yes, that’s yet another dimension! My wife is a free-range Oregonian, and that’s a reason we couldn’t raise our kids in DC where most parents would love to give their kids an ankle monitor.
boroboro4 2y ago
You people want to just build South Africa around here all over again, don’t you? Just a reminder: it works well until it does not.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - tptacek 2y ago
    This is an argument made in deeply bad faith, and the way I know that is that you yourself used to write here about the fact pattern "urbanists" are working within. Suburban enclaves (and their housing patterns) were originally created by segregation (including, indirectly, by de facto segregation in response to de jure desegregation). That same process hollowed out inner city neighborhoods that were disinvested for decades. Meanwhile: the "urbanists" you're deriding are trying to open up residential development in exactly those parts of cities everyone wants to move to, including desirable inner-ring suburbs. You're just throwing bombs here. Why be like this? There are other places you can (and do) write this kind of stuff in, where it doesn't drag HN threads down into the muck.
    - rayiner 2y ago
      My argument is fully made in good faith hoping urbanists will confront their own revealed preferences. If you’re an urbanist, why wouldn’t you want to raise a family in a city like Baltimore that spends $21,000 per student annually, where you can afford a 3-4BR townhome near transit and shopping? I used to live in New Rochelle, NY near the Metro North station. It’s walkable and urban, with great transit. The school district spends $25,000/student, compared to $15,000/student in my Maryland suburb. But housing in New Rochelle is quite affordable considering it’s the NYC Metro area—even cheaper than my suburb. Why don’t the urbanists raise their families there?

ty6853 2y ago

Family friendly trends pretty hard with homogenous demographics. Differences breed contempt, or just displays the inability to empathize with a different way of life. A sad fact of life. People with kids tend to regress back to their familiar mothership when the kids arrive. It's instinctual protection mechanism for their children.

rayiner 2y ago
There’s two different issues. In the US, demographics is highly correlated with other factors. Even the most progressive parents will self-segregate to get away from these issues (under the pretext of finding a “good school district”), which in practice means the suburbs. Apart from that, cultural differences become much more salient when you’re a parent. Because culture is how we transmit our values—what we believe about how to live a good and successful life—to our children. Culture is also highly correlated with demographics and also is a source of conflict. My kids attend a private school with affluent white and black kids (about 2/3 and 1/3). The neighboring supermajority-black county is richer than our supermajority-white county, so there are no socioeconomic divides. But there’s quite a bit of racial conflict nonetheless. A couple of kids in my daughter’s friend group wanted to kick her out of a running group chat because they wanted to make it black-only (she looks fully south asian though she’s half white). My daughter is far more accepted by her white friends who aren’t socialized from an early age to have a sense of racial identity/group solidarity. White/asian places like Brookline have cultural problems as well. My high school was about 30% asian, the remainder white (all affluent and educated). There was a lot of conflict over cheating and the school being a “pressure cooker” that boiled down to conflict between the asian immigrant proclivity of academically grinding to get ahead and the WASP mentality of raising “well rounded” students with diverse interests. Studies show that white families move out of school districts as asian families move in: https://www.the74million.org/article/fear-of-competition-research-shows-that-when-asian-students-move-in-white-families-move-out/ https://www.the74million.org/article/fear-of-competition-res.... This is true even though, statistically, asians are more affluent than whites, much less likely to be arrested or imprisoned, etc. Parenthood is where the rubber really hits the road in terms of any sociological preconceptions people may have. It’s the time when you’re faced with applying those ideas in practice in a situation that will have consequences for what you hold most dear.
- ty6853 2y ago
  It also doesn't help that any perceived error in raising a child results in a phone call to CPS (by literally anyone) and possibly you and your children being terrorized, and much of this perception is cultural. The more cultural diversity, the more chance you come across that single person that doesn't approve of the way you do it. This has happened over as little as a kid walking home alone or playing at the park while the mom is at an interview. I've partially chosen to raise my family in a place with people like me because I know the neighbor kids drive trucks, work in construction, explore the backcountry on dirt bikes, etc from a very young age and I don't have to worry about the local nazi mom sending the child snatchers for the sin of a child having some independence.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    Yes, that’s yet another dimension! My wife is a free-range Oregonian, and that’s a reason we couldn’t raise our kids in DC where most parents would love to give their kids an ankle monitor.

boroboro4 2y ago

You people want to just build South Africa around here all over again, don’t you? Just a reminder: it works well until it does not.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 2y ago
[flagged]
- tptacek 2y ago
  This is an argument made in deeply bad faith, and the way I know that is that you yourself used to write here about the fact pattern "urbanists" are working within. Suburban enclaves (and their housing patterns) were originally created by segregation (including, indirectly, by de facto segregation in response to de jure desegregation). That same process hollowed out inner city neighborhoods that were disinvested for decades. Meanwhile: the "urbanists" you're deriding are trying to open up residential development in exactly those parts of cities everyone wants to move to, including desirable inner-ring suburbs. You're just throwing bombs here. Why be like this? There are other places you can (and do) write this kind of stuff in, where it doesn't drag HN threads down into the muck.
  - rayiner 2y ago
    My argument is fully made in good faith hoping urbanists will confront their own revealed preferences. If you’re an urbanist, why wouldn’t you want to raise a family in a city like Baltimore that spends $21,000 per student annually, where you can afford a 3-4BR townhome near transit and shopping? I used to live in New Rochelle, NY near the Metro North station. It’s walkable and urban, with great transit. The school district spends $25,000/student, compared to $15,000/student in my Maryland suburb. But housing in New Rochelle is quite affordable considering it’s the NYC Metro area—even cheaper than my suburb. Why don’t the urbanists raise their families there?