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> aren't traveling with kids Just as much as many parents think having had kids is one of the proudest decisions (or happiest accidents) they have made, I thin

> aren't traveling with kids Just as much as many parents think having had kids is one of the proudest decisions (or happiest accidents) they have made, I think not having them is one of my best decisions, travelling is one of my many reasons for that, and I find the assumption from some parents that we should bend around their choice is a little presumptuous. Furthermore, ignoring various other definitions of better, hotels are sometimes better value (or, at least, just less expensive) then AirBnBs these days, unless you are lucky, and inexpensive/value-for-money seems to be a very important factor for parents that I know. Having said that I still use AirBnB sometimes, it just certainly isn't my only/preferred option as it was for a time.

calsy 1y ago
People had to tolerate your existence when your parents decided to bring you into this world. Why not show the same courtesy?
- kidsfingsuck 1y ago
  [flagged]
- dspillett 1y ago
  It isn't about tolerance for the kids. I have no objection to them being around¹, I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS for them. My issue is the assumption, amongst many of those with kids, that everything should be optimised for people with kids, and anything that isn't is wrong. Because why would you want to optimise anything for other conditions in some cases? >Why not show the same courtesy? There is courtesy, and there is being expected to accept suboptimal things for myself so that everything can be optimal for other peoples' choices. -------- [1] except perhaps the particularly uncontrolled ones, and I acknowledge that is sometimes unavoidable
  - calsy 1y ago
    So many weird assumptions here. How exactly is everything optimised with families in mind? Ask any parent and I'm sure they will tell you how unoptimised their life is. Why does a single person with their own expendable income worry so much about being catered for specifically? Your only responsibility is to yourself. Do you look around and bemoan family specific services? It's such an odd thing to care about unless you had a grudge. Kids aren't a 'lifestyle choice' like deciding to travel. Do I need to go into the reasons why kids are important or who will be paying to keep you alive when your older?
    - dspillett 1y ago
      > So many weird assumptions here. In your response, yes. Either that or you are significantly misreading my posts. > How exactly is everything optimised with families in mind? It isn't. I didn't say that at all. Some things are, possibly not enough, but many parents think everything should be and everything that isn't implies some deliberate slight. > Ask any parent and I'm sure they will tell you how unoptimised their life is. Ah, the old “you are not a parent, you don't know how hard it is”. I know many parents, and even without that personal context the issues with parenthood are well documented throughout our culture. If anyone is ignorant of reality here it is parents who are surprised to find it isn't easy…¹ > Why does a single person with their own expendable income worry so much about being catered for specifically? I don't, and that isn't what I said. > Your only responsibility is to yourself. Incorrect. I have parents, other family, friends, pets, my work (though that could be filed under responsibility to myself I suppose - I'm not a public servant by any description), other organisations (both commercial and charitable) that I interact with, certain responsibilities we all have to society in general, etc. > Do you look around and bemoan family specific services? I very much do not, I don't even bemoan funding them, and I explicitly said as much (to quote: “I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS…”). Try reading what you reply to before replying to it! > It's such an odd thing to care about unless you had a grudge. Not a grudge as such. Just an irritation that if I'm sometimes seen as selfish if I appreciate something that is optimised for my lifestyle. I've been called selfish for just not wanting to have kids. > Kids aren't a 'lifestyle choice' They very much are. It is a choice that affects your lifestyle in a great many ways whichever side you choose (or, in some cases, have chosen for you). > Do I need to go into the reasons why kids are important No need, I've been told these things, despite already knowing them, many many many times already! > who will be paying to keep you alive when your older? That is a complicated discussion that I really don't have time for ATM, but further to “why kids are important” I am well aware of the problems an average ageing population can cause. -------- [1] Obviously excluding those whose kids have specific issues, be they physical, mental, or both. Those matters are not predictable unlike the general challenges almost all parents face.

calsy 1y ago

People had to tolerate your existence when your parents decided to bring you into this world. Why not show the same courtesy?

kidsfingsuck 1y ago
[flagged]
dspillett 1y ago
It isn't about tolerance for the kids. I have no objection to them being around¹, I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS for them. My issue is the assumption, amongst many of those with kids, that everything should be optimised for people with kids, and anything that isn't is wrong. Because why would you want to optimise anything for other conditions in some cases? >Why not show the same courtesy? There is courtesy, and there is being expected to accept suboptimal things for myself so that everything can be optimal for other peoples' choices. -------- [1] except perhaps the particularly uncontrolled ones, and I acknowledge that is sometimes unavoidable
- calsy 1y ago
  So many weird assumptions here. How exactly is everything optimised with families in mind? Ask any parent and I'm sure they will tell you how unoptimised their life is. Why does a single person with their own expendable income worry so much about being catered for specifically? Your only responsibility is to yourself. Do you look around and bemoan family specific services? It's such an odd thing to care about unless you had a grudge. Kids aren't a 'lifestyle choice' like deciding to travel. Do I need to go into the reasons why kids are important or who will be paying to keep you alive when your older?
  - dspillett 1y ago
    > So many weird assumptions here. In your response, yes. Either that or you are significantly misreading my posts. > How exactly is everything optimised with families in mind? It isn't. I didn't say that at all. Some things are, possibly not enough, but many parents think everything should be and everything that isn't implies some deliberate slight. > Ask any parent and I'm sure they will tell you how unoptimised their life is. Ah, the old “you are not a parent, you don't know how hard it is”. I know many parents, and even without that personal context the issues with parenthood are well documented throughout our culture. If anyone is ignorant of reality here it is parents who are surprised to find it isn't easy…¹ > Why does a single person with their own expendable income worry so much about being catered for specifically? I don't, and that isn't what I said. > Your only responsibility is to yourself. Incorrect. I have parents, other family, friends, pets, my work (though that could be filed under responsibility to myself I suppose - I'm not a public servant by any description), other organisations (both commercial and charitable) that I interact with, certain responsibilities we all have to society in general, etc. > Do you look around and bemoan family specific services? I very much do not, I don't even bemoan funding them, and I explicitly said as much (to quote: “I don't begrudge my taxes going into education and relevant parts of the NHS…”). Try reading what you reply to before replying to it! > It's such an odd thing to care about unless you had a grudge. Not a grudge as such. Just an irritation that if I'm sometimes seen as selfish if I appreciate something that is optimised for my lifestyle. I've been called selfish for just not wanting to have kids. > Kids aren't a 'lifestyle choice' They very much are. It is a choice that affects your lifestyle in a great many ways whichever side you choose (or, in some cases, have chosen for you). > Do I need to go into the reasons why kids are important No need, I've been told these things, despite already knowing them, many many many times already! > who will be paying to keep you alive when your older? That is a complicated discussion that I really don't have time for ATM, but further to “why kids are important” I am well aware of the problems an average ageing population can cause. -------- [1] Obviously excluding those whose kids have specific issues, be they physical, mental, or both. Those matters are not predictable unlike the general challenges almost all parents face.