5 ms·

Wow, anyone able to provide a ELI5? OTel sounds amazing but this is flying over my head

theLiminator 1y ago
Not sure, but seems like it will be producing apache arrow data and carrying it across the data stack end to end from OTEL. This would be great for creating data without a bunch of duplication/redundant processing steps and exporting it in a form that's ready to query.
- piterrro 1y ago
  Unless I dont understand that fully (which could be the case). This idea could fly if downstream readers will be able to read it. Json is great because anything can read it, process, transform and serialize without having to know the intrisics of the protocol. Whats the point of using binary, columnar format for data in transit?
  - arccy 1y ago
    better compression https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/ https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/ You don't do high performance without knowing the data schema.
    - odie5533 1y ago
      Is Arrow better than Parquet or Protobuf?
      - theLiminator 1y ago
        Arrow is an in-memory columnar format, kinda orthogonal to parquet (which is an at-rest format). Protobuf is a better comparison, but it's more message oriented and not suited for analytics.
      - datadrivenangel 1y ago
        Not having to write to disk is great, and zero-copy in memory access is instant...
      - arccy 1y ago
        the blog post comparison is against OTLP which is protobuf
  - lquerel 1y ago
    [dead]
phillipcarter 1y ago
Warning: this is an oversimplification. Performance optimization and being able to "plug in" to the data ecosystem that Apache Arrow exists in. OpenTelemetry is pretty great for a lot of uses, but the protocol over the wire is too chunky for some applications where. From last year's post on the topic[0]: > In a side-by-side comparison between OpenTelemetry Protocol (“OTLP”) and OpenTelemetry Protocol with Apache Arrow for similarly configured traces pipelines, we observe 30% improvement in compression. Although this study specifically focused on traces data, we have observed results for logs and metrics signals in production settings too, where OTel-Arrow users can expect 50% to 70% improvement relative to OTLP for similar pipeline configurations. For your average set of apps and services running in a k8s cluster somewhere in the cloud, this is just a nice-to-have, but size on wire is a problem for a lot of systems out there today, and they are precluded from adopting OpenTelemetry until that's solved. [0]: https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2024/otel-arrow-production/ https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2024/otel-arrow-production/
potamic 1y ago
This diagram really depicts things nicely https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/row-vs-columnar.png https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/row-vs-columna...
- ahoka 1y ago
  A bit hand wavy.

Not sure, but seems like it will be producing apache arrow data and carrying it across the data stack end to end from OTEL. This would be great for creating data without a bunch of duplication/redundant processing steps and exporting it in a form that's ready to query.

piterrro 1y ago
Unless I dont understand that fully (which could be the case). This idea could fly if downstream readers will be able to read it. Json is great because anything can read it, process, transform and serialize without having to know the intrisics of the protocol. Whats the point of using binary, columnar format for data in transit?
- arccy 1y ago
  better compression https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/ https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/ You don't do high performance without knowing the data schema.
  - odie5533 1y ago
    Is Arrow better than Parquet or Protobuf?
    - theLiminator 1y ago
      Arrow is an in-memory columnar format, kinda orthogonal to parquet (which is an at-rest format). Protobuf is a better comparison, but it's more message oriented and not suited for analytics.
    - datadrivenangel 1y ago
      Not having to write to disk is great, and zero-copy in memory access is instant...
    - arccy 1y ago
      the blog post comparison is against OTLP which is protobuf
- lquerel 1y ago
  [dead]

phillipcarter 1y ago

Warning: this is an oversimplification. Performance optimization and being able to "plug in" to the data ecosystem that Apache Arrow exists in. OpenTelemetry is pretty great for a lot of uses, but the protocol over the wire is too chunky for some applications where. From last year's post on the topic[0]: > In a side-by-side comparison between OpenTelemetry Protocol (“OTLP”) and OpenTelemetry Protocol with Apache Arrow for similarly configured traces pipelines, we observe 30% improvement in compression. Although this study specifically focused on traces data, we have observed results for logs and metrics signals in production settings too, where OTel-Arrow users can expect 50% to 70% improvement relative to OTLP for similar pipeline configurations. For your average set of apps and services running in a k8s cluster somewhere in the cloud, this is just a nice-to-have, but size on wire is a problem for a lot of systems out there today, and they are precluded from adopting OpenTelemetry until that's solved. [0]: https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2024/otel-arrow-production/ https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2024/otel-arrow-production/

potamic 1y ago

This diagram really depicts things nicely https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/row-vs-columnar.png https://opentelemetry.io/blog/2023/otel-arrow/row-vs-columna...

ahoka 1y ago
A bit hand wavy.