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>the exec, the courts, and a majority of congress I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. I mean sure, we are well o

>the exec, the courts, and a majority of congress I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. I mean sure, we are well outside the strict scope of Constitution, but that ship left generations ago.

daveguy 1y ago
It won't be a coup if they abide by the results of the 2026 election. Last time an election didn't go their way, they did not abide by the results.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  What are you saying? It's all a big nothing burger until 2026? And then maybe it's still nothing?
  - daveguy 1y ago
    Nope. That's not at all what I'm saying. It's just not officially a coup until they refuse to cede power. We know they are very capable of it (already tried it once). In the meantime they are sowing chaos and destroying institutions.
- hackyhacky 1y ago
  It's a coup now because they are seizing power that has not been granted to them. Firing the head of the CBFP, installing a non-approved Librarian of Congress, bypassing agency regulations such as IRS privacy laws, etc. That's all illegal. It's a coup by the President against the rest of the government.
mystraline 1y ago
> I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. The courts have been captured and politicized heavily. Clearance Thomas should be expelled for emoluments. Kavanaugh also for lying on the stand. Congress has a bare majority for republicans. So getting impeachments for actual crimes by republicans is a non-starter. POTUS and executive branch can run roughshod, and order all sorts of illegal actions. Congress won't impeach. And they can pardon anybody underneath them. Musk is a perfect example - no clearance, yet somehow 'legally' is destroying sections of government that was investigating him. And given a complete pass. Its also how ICE can kidnap and traffick people, all the while flaunting disobeidance from a federal judge. This is a coup by the oligarchy against the people. And aside violent uprisings (of which I do not condone), there's not much at all we can do.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
  >The courts have been captured and politicized heavily This isn't a real thing. They're not captured, people are just on them that you don't like and they're ruling against your values. >Congress has a bare majority for republicans So the majority is governing?
  - mystraline 1y ago
    So, emoluments violations, bribery, and perjury should be legal? I wasn't calling out party political disputes. I was calling out taking massive bribes, violating the emoluments clause, and perjury. Your politics are showing. I prefer rule of law, not of kakistocrat.
    - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
      Where have you been for the past 25 years?? These are par for the course in our governing class. This isn't whataboutism, this is extensive behavior that we've seen for at least a generation now (e.g. expensive speeches to Wall St, congressional insider trading, revolving door of regulators/industry)
      - hackyhacky 1y ago
        > Where have you been for the past 25 years? This is a very myopic view. In the past 3 months, we've seen curtailing of civil liberties (bypassing due process), open bribery (memecoin pay-to-play, Qatari airplane), illegal interference with independent agencies (firing head of CFPB), executive overreach ("emergency" tariffs), violations of free speech (punishing law firms for their clients), etc. None of this is precedented at this scale. What you are doing is exactly what aboutism, by claiming that minor transgressions in the past excuse blatant authoritarianism.
        ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        The Clinton Foundation somehow wasn't open bribery? That was the most powerful political family in America for a generation. You think people paid him&her for speeches because they're talented orators? Pelosi insider trading is a minor transgression? She was the most powerful congressman for years. You think she didn't do anything to earn those stock tips?
piva00 1y ago
The new wave of authoritarianism uses the bureaucracy and state machine against itself. They've learnt from the past, there's no Night of the Long Knives, or the burning of the Reichstag, that's too overt. Look at Orbán, Erdogan, and similar new authoritarians, the coup is a slow grinding of every facet of democracy: grind the press, grind the judiciary, throw a new law into the mix made up by your cronies in the parliament/Congress, keep grinding at the foundations of democracy over decades and you get a shell of institutions that used to be the foundation of a democratic state being re-purposed to push the agenda of the dictator. The veneer of institutions is the point, it's to make you have exactly this reaction: > I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. Because you are expecting an overt coup, not a slow moving covert one.
- AlecSchueler 1y ago
  > They've learnt from the past, there's no Night of the Long Knives, or the burning of the Reichstag, that's too overt. They did actually try it, though, and all the prior involved got pardons from the president. Totally agree with you overall point, just wanted to point this out.
- anigbrowl 1y ago
  This book is a great (albeit drily written/translated) analysis of how an authoritarian state operated in practice on the day-to-day level, in contrast to the spectacular political turning points you mention. It documents the dull but important methodology of fiscal management, financial engineering, how the nazies restructured the existing bureaucracy to suit their own ends, and the legal and technical means they used to expropriate wealth from political enemies, out-groups, and eventually the subjects in annexed or conquered territories. It's not an enjoyable read in either subject matter or style, but provides invaluable insights into the mechanics of authoritarian rule behind the iconic renditions of oppression in snappy uniforms. https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805087260/hitlersbeneficiaries/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805087260/hitlersbenefici...

daveguy 1y ago

It won't be a coup if they abide by the results of the 2026 election. Last time an election didn't go their way, they did not abide by the results.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
What are you saying? It's all a big nothing burger until 2026? And then maybe it's still nothing?
- daveguy 1y ago
  Nope. That's not at all what I'm saying. It's just not officially a coup until they refuse to cede power. We know they are very capable of it (already tried it once). In the meantime they are sowing chaos and destroying institutions.
hackyhacky 1y ago
It's a coup now because they are seizing power that has not been granted to them. Firing the head of the CBFP, installing a non-approved Librarian of Congress, bypassing agency regulations such as IRS privacy laws, etc. That's all illegal. It's a coup by the President against the rest of the government.

mystraline 1y ago

> I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. The courts have been captured and politicized heavily. Clearance Thomas should be expelled for emoluments. Kavanaugh also for lying on the stand. Congress has a bare majority for republicans. So getting impeachments for actual crimes by republicans is a non-starter. POTUS and executive branch can run roughshod, and order all sorts of illegal actions. Congress won't impeach. And they can pardon anybody underneath them. Musk is a perfect example - no clearance, yet somehow 'legally' is destroying sections of government that was investigating him. And given a complete pass. Its also how ICE can kidnap and traffick people, all the while flaunting disobeidance from a federal judge. This is a coup by the oligarchy against the people. And aside violent uprisings (of which I do not condone), there's not much at all we can do.

ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
>The courts have been captured and politicized heavily This isn't a real thing. They're not captured, people are just on them that you don't like and they're ruling against your values. >Congress has a bare majority for republicans So the majority is governing?
- mystraline 1y ago
  So, emoluments violations, bribery, and perjury should be legal? I wasn't calling out party political disputes. I was calling out taking massive bribes, violating the emoluments clause, and perjury. Your politics are showing. I prefer rule of law, not of kakistocrat.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
    Where have you been for the past 25 years?? These are par for the course in our governing class. This isn't whataboutism, this is extensive behavior that we've seen for at least a generation now (e.g. expensive speeches to Wall St, congressional insider trading, revolving door of regulators/industry)
    - hackyhacky 1y ago
      > Where have you been for the past 25 years? This is a very myopic view. In the past 3 months, we've seen curtailing of civil liberties (bypassing due process), open bribery (memecoin pay-to-play, Qatari airplane), illegal interference with independent agencies (firing head of CFPB), executive overreach ("emergency" tariffs), violations of free speech (punishing law firms for their clients), etc. None of this is precedented at this scale. What you are doing is exactly what aboutism, by claiming that minor transgressions in the past excuse blatant authoritarianism.
      - ahmeneeroe-v2 1y ago
        The Clinton Foundation somehow wasn't open bribery? That was the most powerful political family in America for a generation. You think people paid him&her for speeches because they're talented orators? Pelosi insider trading is a minor transgression? She was the most powerful congressman for years. You think she didn't do anything to earn those stock tips?

piva00 1y ago

The new wave of authoritarianism uses the bureaucracy and state machine against itself. They've learnt from the past, there's no Night of the Long Knives, or the burning of the Reichstag, that's too overt. Look at Orbán, Erdogan, and similar new authoritarians, the coup is a slow grinding of every facet of democracy: grind the press, grind the judiciary, throw a new law into the mix made up by your cronies in the parliament/Congress, keep grinding at the foundations of democracy over decades and you get a shell of institutions that used to be the foundation of a democratic state being re-purposed to push the agenda of the dictator. The veneer of institutions is the point, it's to make you have exactly this reaction: > I genuinely don't understand how this can be a coup when all three branches agree. Because you are expecting an overt coup, not a slow moving covert one.

AlecSchueler 1y ago
> They've learnt from the past, there's no Night of the Long Knives, or the burning of the Reichstag, that's too overt. They did actually try it, though, and all the prior involved got pardons from the president. Totally agree with you overall point, just wanted to point this out.
anigbrowl 1y ago
This book is a great (albeit drily written/translated) analysis of how an authoritarian state operated in practice on the day-to-day level, in contrast to the spectacular political turning points you mention. It documents the dull but important methodology of fiscal management, financial engineering, how the nazies restructured the existing bureaucracy to suit their own ends, and the legal and technical means they used to expropriate wealth from political enemies, out-groups, and eventually the subjects in annexed or conquered territories. It's not an enjoyable read in either subject matter or style, but provides invaluable insights into the mechanics of authoritarian rule behind the iconic renditions of oppression in snappy uniforms. https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805087260/hitlersbeneficiaries/ https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780805087260/hitlersbenefici...