4 ms·

A clusterfuck describes chaos and disorganization. This is just a deliberate attack, it is being executed well. It is just malicious.

postalrat 1y ago
People will prefer calling it both malicious and disorganized. Well executed sounds too positive.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
  Calling it well-executed is pragmatic. There's no reason to avoid positive-sounding things if they're true, especially not because it's positive. If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Xplan 1y ago
[flagged]
- Onawa 1y ago
  Ahh yes, how ironic that Democrats are complaining about a billionaire with myriad conflicts of interest interfering in government funding... Very comparable to unelected bureaucrats implementing regulations that on average were meant to try and protect the general public.
- apercu 1y ago
  >"effectively gutting the least efficient parts of the government (my take, at least from 50,000 view)" Based on what? See, I think of myself as a highly informed, curious person that is a voracious reader and yet I absolutely know I have zero basis to make such a determination. So what data do you have that I don't?
  - jslaby 1y ago
    Efficiency is at an all time high now. We can see one air traffic controller handling a workload that would have required ten or more.
    - apercu 1y ago
      Lol, that's quite the example using recent history.
- AftHurrahWinch 1y ago
  That is a factually inaccurate description of the role of federal agencies under Chevron deference. Chevron deference was a legal doctrine that required courts to defer to reasonable agency interpretations of ambiguous statutes, not a mechanism that allowed career civil servants to unilaterally create criminal laws. Federal agencies could only issue regulations within the authority explicitly delegated by Congress, and these regulations were subject to judicial review, public notice-and-comment periods, and Congressional oversight.
- HelloMcFly 1y ago
  Chevron was never a partisan “Democratic” trick, it was a 1984 Supreme Court precedent that applied to every administration for forty years. It simply said that when a statute is ambiguous, courts should accept a reasonable agency reading unless Congress says otherwise (Congress always had the power). That is ordinary separation‑of‑powers. When the Court overturned Chevron, it did not “return law‑making to Congress” as some claim, it didn't give Congress any more power than it already had. It instead shifted final interpretive power from expert agencies to federal judges. Congress still writes broad statutes and still relies on agencies to fill in technical details only now those rules are more vulnerable to litigation and inherently more fragile. Comparing that process to Elon Musk’s influence misses the mark. Agencies are public, transparent, and (at least theoretically) answerable to elected branches; Musk is a private supplier whose market dominance lets him set terms with little democratic oversight. One is statutory delegation, the other is private leverage with clear and obvious conflicts of interest. Treating them as equivalent flattens important distinctions and obscures the real accountability gaps in each scenario.
- throwaway5752 1y ago
  You don't describe this like a person that possesses any domain expertise in the subject. It wasn't a mechanism called the Chevron deference, it was law, as determined by the Supreme Court in "Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council". The deference was on the part of the courts deferring to executive regulators when there was ambiguity, since the regulators were experts in a given field and the courts were generally legal experts. Not Congress. That was overturned in Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo. "non-elected, life-long positioned government employees" so, you mean, federal employees. Nothing about it is "life-long", you made that up. They could quit, change jobs, or be fired. And "criminals" is false. It applied to civil statutes, not criminal ones. It goes on.
- FridayoLeary 1y ago
  The court decided in 1984 that judges should defer to federal agencies in interpreting ambiguous parts of statutes. I think overturning this is an overall win for democracy.
- grafmax 1y ago
  Republicans vs Democrats is indeed the wrong way to look at it. Both parties are beholden to the billionaire/corporate class. Democrats helped pave the way for Trump. Mass surveillance, extrajudicial killing of US citizens, militarization of law enforcement, expansion of executive powers, the list goes on. I’m curious to what degree the narrative will once again be recuperated by the Democrats to obscure the class origins of these policies - the expansion of power of the corporate-government machine. The Dems have been successfully playing ping pong with the Republicans for many years without addressing our society’s structural failures because they don’t want to upset their monied masters.

postalrat 1y ago

People will prefer calling it both malicious and disorganized. Well executed sounds too positive.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
Calling it well-executed is pragmatic. There's no reason to avoid positive-sounding things if they're true, especially not because it's positive. If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle. -- Sun Tzu, The Art of War

Xplan 1y ago

[flagged]

Onawa 1y ago
Ahh yes, how ironic that Democrats are complaining about a billionaire with myriad conflicts of interest interfering in government funding... Very comparable to unelected bureaucrats implementing regulations that on average were meant to try and protect the general public.
apercu 1y ago
>"effectively gutting the least efficient parts of the government (my take, at least from 50,000 view)" Based on what? See, I think of myself as a highly informed, curious person that is a voracious reader and yet I absolutely know I have zero basis to make such a determination. So what data do you have that I don't?
- jslaby 1y ago
  Efficiency is at an all time high now. We can see one air traffic controller handling a workload that would have required ten or more.
  - apercu 1y ago
    Lol, that's quite the example using recent history.
AftHurrahWinch 1y ago
That is a factually inaccurate description of the role of federal agencies under Chevron deference. Chevron deference was a legal doctrine that required courts to defer to reasonable agency interpretations of ambiguous statutes, not a mechanism that allowed career civil servants to unilaterally create criminal laws. Federal agencies could only issue regulations within the authority explicitly delegated by Congress, and these regulations were subject to judicial review, public notice-and-comment periods, and Congressional oversight.
HelloMcFly 1y ago
Chevron was never a partisan “Democratic” trick, it was a 1984 Supreme Court precedent that applied to every administration for forty years. It simply said that when a statute is ambiguous, courts should accept a reasonable agency reading unless Congress says otherwise (Congress always had the power). That is ordinary separation‑of‑powers. When the Court overturned Chevron, it did not “return law‑making to Congress” as some claim, it didn't give Congress any more power than it already had. It instead shifted final interpretive power from expert agencies to federal judges. Congress still writes broad statutes and still relies on agencies to fill in technical details only now those rules are more vulnerable to litigation and inherently more fragile. Comparing that process to Elon Musk’s influence misses the mark. Agencies are public, transparent, and (at least theoretically) answerable to elected branches; Musk is a private supplier whose market dominance lets him set terms with little democratic oversight. One is statutory delegation, the other is private leverage with clear and obvious conflicts of interest. Treating them as equivalent flattens important distinctions and obscures the real accountability gaps in each scenario.
throwaway5752 1y ago
You don't describe this like a person that possesses any domain expertise in the subject. It wasn't a mechanism called the Chevron deference, it was law, as determined by the Supreme Court in "Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council". The deference was on the part of the courts deferring to executive regulators when there was ambiguity, since the regulators were experts in a given field and the courts were generally legal experts. Not Congress. That was overturned in Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo. "non-elected, life-long positioned government employees" so, you mean, federal employees. Nothing about it is "life-long", you made that up. They could quit, change jobs, or be fired. And "criminals" is false. It applied to civil statutes, not criminal ones. It goes on.
FridayoLeary 1y ago
The court decided in 1984 that judges should defer to federal agencies in interpreting ambiguous parts of statutes. I think overturning this is an overall win for democracy.
grafmax 1y ago
Republicans vs Democrats is indeed the wrong way to look at it. Both parties are beholden to the billionaire/corporate class. Democrats helped pave the way for Trump. Mass surveillance, extrajudicial killing of US citizens, militarization of law enforcement, expansion of executive powers, the list goes on. I’m curious to what degree the narrative will once again be recuperated by the Democrats to obscure the class origins of these policies - the expansion of power of the corporate-government machine. The Dems have been successfully playing ping pong with the Republicans for many years without addressing our society’s structural failures because they don’t want to upset their monied masters.