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IMHO America's success as a scientific powerhouse had more to do with the research infrastructure spun up to win the war than Nazi scientists afterwards.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> America's success as a scientific powerhouse had more to do with the research infrastructure spun up to win the war than Nazi scientists afterwards Bit of A, bit of B, with B encompassing the Nazis and the British.
SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
Parent comment says "the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists" , which is not the same as "Nazi scientists". Did you see the "Oppenheimer" movie? Check the real physicists depicted working on the Manhattan project. A large number of them were European Jews who left before or during the war. Einstein, Teller, Szilard, Hornig. Even some others left Europe because of this: Niels Bohr (Jewish Mother) and Enrico Fermi (Jewish Wife). To be sure there was Wernher von Braun and co as well. In fact, it would be quicker to list the Manhattan project physicists depicted in that movie who were not Jewish at all: * Ernest Lawrence * Luis Walter Alvarez
- AStonesThrow 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - ben_w 1y ago
    > Is America enough of a "melting pot" that we can withstand that sort of outsized foreign influence within our borders? Depends. If your idea of America consists of just the pre-colonial native groups, Navajo etc., then America was already gone a century and a half ago. But the America of 1925 had exactly the same arguments about Italians, and of 1845 about the Irish, in that the local born were complaining a lot and didn't trust the newcomers. The melting pot has been melting for a long time now; you're a big endless stew of a country. (Except for the "real" natives, if there is such a thing).
  - vessenes 1y ago
    You talk about this like it's an accident almost. It was a considered Federal policy to brain drain as hard as possible. Anecdotally, I too worry about the influx of the dirty Irish into our borders, stealing good jobs and spreading their Irish culture. Oh, sorry, I forgot it's not 1940. In my opinion, America has a strong, strong culture -- brain drained scientist's kids in general look pretty integrated to me, at least the ones I know.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
    > These are markedly distinct career paths from the ones taken by homegrown Jews, Actually "Oppenheimer" the movie also supplies examples of two very different New York Jewish backgrounds: J Robert Oppenheimer, from an affluent, non-religious family - with an Upper West side apartment and a summer vacation home on Long Island. His father came to the USA as a teenager, and prospered in business. Isidor Isaac Rabi, from an orthodox, Yiddish-speaking family living in a two-room apartment on the Lower East Side. He was born shortly before the family came to the USA.
insane_dreamer 1y ago
And the investments that it continued to make in it after the war.
rtkwe 1y ago
Honestly way more with just being the one super power standing after the war. We were basically untouched, even accounting for dead and wounded we only lost ~1 million people and practically zero manufacturing infrastructure so we came out of the war roaring and flush with cash. That catapulted the US to where it has been for the whole of the time since but a lot of people seem to have believed we were owed that or earned it through some special property of the US and the come down from it is not going well socially.
- wat10000 1y ago
  We were, it’s just that this special property was owning our own private continent.
  - nine_k 1y ago
    Australia tried that, too, but their continent is really problematic.
    - rtkwe 1y ago
      They were also only quasi independent at the time of the wars too so they had less flexibility to decide on their policy.
  - gilleain 1y ago
    _It's free real estate_
  - rtkwe 1y ago
    True I meant more in the political/economic sphere. Being isolated geographically from both WW1 and WW2 was a major boon to the US economy, we got the economic benefit of the wars without the damage (beyond lives lost of course). And as time has gone on that geography is less and less effective as a shield.
    - wat10000 1y ago
      Yeah, I was really just reinforcing your point in a cheeky way.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> America's success as a scientific powerhouse had more to do with the research infrastructure spun up to win the war than Nazi scientists afterwards Bit of A, bit of B, with B encompassing the Nazis and the British.

SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago

Parent comment says "the opportunity created by Nazi ideological purges of scientists" , which is not the same as "Nazi scientists". Did you see the "Oppenheimer" movie? Check the real physicists depicted working on the Manhattan project. A large number of them were European Jews who left before or during the war. Einstein, Teller, Szilard, Hornig. Even some others left Europe because of this: Niels Bohr (Jewish Mother) and Enrico Fermi (Jewish Wife). To be sure there was Wernher von Braun and co as well. In fact, it would be quicker to list the Manhattan project physicists depicted in that movie who were not Jewish at all: * Ernest Lawrence * Luis Walter Alvarez

AStonesThrow 1y ago
[flagged]
- ben_w 1y ago
  > Is America enough of a "melting pot" that we can withstand that sort of outsized foreign influence within our borders? Depends. If your idea of America consists of just the pre-colonial native groups, Navajo etc., then America was already gone a century and a half ago. But the America of 1925 had exactly the same arguments about Italians, and of 1845 about the Irish, in that the local born were complaining a lot and didn't trust the newcomers. The melting pot has been melting for a long time now; you're a big endless stew of a country. (Except for the "real" natives, if there is such a thing).
- vessenes 1y ago
  You talk about this like it's an accident almost. It was a considered Federal policy to brain drain as hard as possible. Anecdotally, I too worry about the influx of the dirty Irish into our borders, stealing good jobs and spreading their Irish culture. Oh, sorry, I forgot it's not 1940. In my opinion, America has a strong, strong culture -- brain drained scientist's kids in general look pretty integrated to me, at least the ones I know.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago
  > These are markedly distinct career paths from the ones taken by homegrown Jews, Actually "Oppenheimer" the movie also supplies examples of two very different New York Jewish backgrounds: J Robert Oppenheimer, from an affluent, non-religious family - with an Upper West side apartment and a summer vacation home on Long Island. His father came to the USA as a teenager, and prospered in business. Isidor Isaac Rabi, from an orthodox, Yiddish-speaking family living in a two-room apartment on the Lower East Side. He was born shortly before the family came to the USA.

insane_dreamer 1y ago

And the investments that it continued to make in it after the war.

rtkwe 1y ago

Honestly way more with just being the one super power standing after the war. We were basically untouched, even accounting for dead and wounded we only lost ~1 million people and practically zero manufacturing infrastructure so we came out of the war roaring and flush with cash. That catapulted the US to where it has been for the whole of the time since but a lot of people seem to have believed we were owed that or earned it through some special property of the US and the come down from it is not going well socially.

wat10000 1y ago
We were, it’s just that this special property was owning our own private continent.
- nine_k 1y ago
  Australia tried that, too, but their continent is really problematic.
  - rtkwe 1y ago
    They were also only quasi independent at the time of the wars too so they had less flexibility to decide on their policy.
- gilleain 1y ago
  _It's free real estate_
- rtkwe 1y ago
  True I meant more in the political/economic sphere. Being isolated geographically from both WW1 and WW2 was a major boon to the US economy, we got the economic benefit of the wars without the damage (beyond lives lost of course). And as time has gone on that geography is less and less effective as a shield.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    Yeah, I was really just reinforcing your point in a cheeky way.