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I think this is a good idea, and attacks the problem of high availability at the correct abstraction layer. Demand is lower at night anyway and forces these pl

I think this is a good idea, and attacks the problem of high availability at the correct abstraction layer. Demand is lower at night anyway and forces these plants to invest in appropriate energy storage solutions. If we leave this problem up to the rest of the grid we will have even bigger political fights.

watwut 1y ago
Demand being lower at night implies it makes sense to demand solar production at night?
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  No, it is is because Texas is adding redundancy requirements. Full investment in solar is dangerous - just look at Spain and Portugal recently. Texas has a duty to provide reliable power to its customers.
  - piva00 1y ago
    I will basically copy-paste my other reply[0] to you because you are spreading a narrative that is potentially wrong (and at the very least quite misleading): There has been no conclusive post mortem, the issue is still under investigation[1], this is a blog post by a tech company, not an authoritative agency with findings, basically speculation being used as a marketing article... This article[2] also calls out the rumor mill about renewables being a cause: > Political groups such as the far-right VOX – which has historically pushed back against climate action such as the expansion of renewables – also pointed to the blackout as evidence of “the importance of a balanced energy mix”. > However, others rejected this suggestion, with EU energy chief Dan Jørgensen telling Bloomberg that the blackout could not be pinned on a “specific source of energy”: > “As far as we know, there was nothing unusual about the sources of energy supplying electricity to the system yesterday. So the causes of the blackout cannot be reduced to a specific source of energy, for instance renewables.” > Others have sought to highlight that, while it was possible solar power was involved in the initial frequency event, this does not mean that it was ultimately the cause of the blackout. It's all inconclusive and the narrative that solar is the culprit is being pushed by anti-renewables, let's wait until there's an official conclusion to the investigation instead of peddling bullshit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43970583 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43970583 [1] https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/01/iberian-black-out-entso-e-congratulates-red-electrica-and-ren-for-the-rapid-recovery-of-the-electricity-systems-of-portugal-and-spain-and-establishes-an-expert-panel-to-investigate-the-incident/ https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/01/iberian-black-out-ents... [2] https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-ab...
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
  - watwut 1y ago
    You people will twist themselves into pretzels to protect just about anything if it comes from conservatives, isnt it?
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      I am looking at this from a logical perspective. It has nothing to do with conservatism.
  - renox 1y ago
    > just look at Spain and Portugal recently Uh, the cause of the issue has not been identified.
- Arnt 1y ago
  That's not what Texas demands. Rather, it demands being able to produce above average at night, which is far above what the usage patterns require.
docdeek 1y ago
That was my impression of the description of the bill, too. This part: >> If passed by the House, state S.B. 715 would require all renewable projects — even existing ones — to buy backup power, largely from coal or gas plants. If it compelled the renewable projects to buy from a coal plant, that might be an issue. But if the choice is buy from a coal plant OR invest in storage so that the amoutn of energy delivered can be consistent across the day, that’s probably a great outcome.
- firesteelrain 1y ago
  A lot of people miss the fact that coal or natural gas can provide on demand power much faster to customers when solar plants go dormant at night.
  - standardUser 1y ago
    Much faster than what? Than battery storage?
    - firesteelrain 1y ago
      Gas turbines can run continuously for hours or even days at full output. Batteries are only few hours at most. Batteries can’t provide this kind of power demand at grid scale.
      - bastawhiz 1y ago
        Thankfully nighttime doesn't last for days
      - rickydroll 1y ago
        > Batteries can’t provide this kind of power demand at grid scale. Yes, they can't yet* supply enough power for overnight coverage. However, multiple grids have batteries that provide four hours of supply at grid scale. Watch the percentage of power running overnight on batteries. Over time, you'll see an increasing blend of wind power plus batteries with a decreasing amount of gas-powered turbines.

watwut 1y ago

Demand being lower at night implies it makes sense to demand solar production at night?

firesteelrain 1y ago
No, it is is because Texas is adding redundancy requirements. Full investment in solar is dangerous - just look at Spain and Portugal recently. Texas has a duty to provide reliable power to its customers.
- piva00 1y ago
  I will basically copy-paste my other reply[0] to you because you are spreading a narrative that is potentially wrong (and at the very least quite misleading): There has been no conclusive post mortem, the issue is still under investigation[1], this is a blog post by a tech company, not an authoritative agency with findings, basically speculation being used as a marketing article... This article[2] also calls out the rumor mill about renewables being a cause: > Political groups such as the far-right VOX – which has historically pushed back against climate action such as the expansion of renewables – also pointed to the blackout as evidence of “the importance of a balanced energy mix”. > However, others rejected this suggestion, with EU energy chief Dan Jørgensen telling Bloomberg that the blackout could not be pinned on a “specific source of energy”: > “As far as we know, there was nothing unusual about the sources of energy supplying electricity to the system yesterday. So the causes of the blackout cannot be reduced to a specific source of energy, for instance renewables.” > Others have sought to highlight that, while it was possible solar power was involved in the initial frequency event, this does not mean that it was ultimately the cause of the blackout. It's all inconclusive and the narrative that solar is the culprit is being pushed by anti-renewables, let's wait until there's an official conclusion to the investigation instead of peddling bullshit. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43970583 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43970583 [1] https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/01/iberian-black-out-entso-e-congratulates-red-electrica-and-ren-for-the-rapid-recovery-of-the-electricity-systems-of-portugal-and-spain-and-establishes-an-expert-panel-to-investigate-the-incident/ https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/01/iberian-black-out-ents... [2] https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal/ https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-ab...
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
- watwut 1y ago
  You people will twist themselves into pretzels to protect just about anything if it comes from conservatives, isnt it?
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    I am looking at this from a logical perspective. It has nothing to do with conservatism.
- renox 1y ago
  > just look at Spain and Portugal recently Uh, the cause of the issue has not been identified.
Arnt 1y ago
That's not what Texas demands. Rather, it demands being able to produce above average at night, which is far above what the usage patterns require.

docdeek 1y ago

That was my impression of the description of the bill, too. This part: >> If passed by the House, state S.B. 715 would require all renewable projects — even existing ones — to buy backup power, largely from coal or gas plants. If it compelled the renewable projects to buy from a coal plant, that might be an issue. But if the choice is buy from a coal plant OR invest in storage so that the amoutn of energy delivered can be consistent across the day, that’s probably a great outcome.

firesteelrain 1y ago
A lot of people miss the fact that coal or natural gas can provide on demand power much faster to customers when solar plants go dormant at night.
- standardUser 1y ago
  Much faster than what? Than battery storage?
  - firesteelrain 1y ago
    Gas turbines can run continuously for hours or even days at full output. Batteries are only few hours at most. Batteries can’t provide this kind of power demand at grid scale.
    - bastawhiz 1y ago
      Thankfully nighttime doesn't last for days
    - rickydroll 1y ago
      > Batteries can’t provide this kind of power demand at grid scale. Yes, they can't yet* supply enough power for overnight coverage. However, multiple grids have batteries that provide four hours of supply at grid scale. Watch the percentage of power running overnight on batteries. Over time, you'll see an increasing blend of wind power plus batteries with a decreasing amount of gas-powered turbines.