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While there was over 10 times as many applicants as there were spots, there were people that went to college and studied ATC who weren't able to become Air Traf

While there was over 10 times as many applicants as there were spots, there were people that went to college and studied ATC who weren't able to become Air Traffic Controllers because of the Biographical Questionnaire. You can't say an opinion is false - it's an opinion. The fact is though, that the Biographical Questionaire affected hiring. Did it make a noticeable difference though? Who knows. We just know for certain that people who studied for this job didn't get in.

spinf97 1y ago
When you say "I don't think there is a debate" and then someone points out there is a debate, you are sorta proven wrong!
pwagland 1y ago
> You can't say an opinion is false - it's an opinion. I agree that op thought: > [that] there's [no] debate that ATC staffing is a major issue right now, and the FAA really did blow up its hiring pipeline to further DEI goals Grandparent only said that there is clearly debate over this. To say that no-one can disagree with op, or point out an opposing point of view, because is their opinion, is not furthering discussion.
lazyasciiart 1y ago
I don't think that your last statement really matches the claim that the FAA blew up the hiring pipeline, though.
krisoft 1y ago
> You can't say an opinion is false - it's an opinion. Fascinating. It sounds like the miscommunication happens because there is two different ways "I don't think there's any debate that X" is used. One is used to communicate a fact. The fact that X is so uncontroversial that nobody debates it. The other one seems to be using "I don't think there's any debate" as a kind of emphasis. It's a bit like double underscoring X and writing three exclamation points around it. It doesn't change that you are still just saying X but with more élan. And if different people use it differently then of course they won't understand each other. One would be confused that their strongly held opinion has been declared false without the conversation partner even addressing X. The other would be confused how something so easily disproven (by the presence of a debate) can be maintained. But of course I can be wrong.
alistairSH 1y ago
But, did the hire rate for those graduates change in a substantial way? Or were there always a % of ATC college programs who couldn't get the jobs (for one reason or another)? {I don't know the answer to this, but maybe it's been reported} There was absolutely corruption in the application/hiring process. That corruption was built on top of a (flawed, but well intentioned?) DEI program. But, as you note, did it materially impact the overall quality of the hiring pipeline? Maybe, but I don't know that we know for sure.

spinf97 1y ago

When you say "I don't think there is a debate" and then someone points out there is a debate, you are sorta proven wrong!

pwagland 1y ago

> You can't say an opinion is false - it's an opinion. I agree that op thought: > [that] there's [no] debate that ATC staffing is a major issue right now, and the FAA really did blow up its hiring pipeline to further DEI goals Grandparent only said that there is clearly debate over this. To say that no-one can disagree with op, or point out an opposing point of view, because is their opinion, is not furthering discussion.

lazyasciiart 1y ago

I don't think that your last statement really matches the claim that the FAA blew up the hiring pipeline, though.

krisoft 1y ago

> You can't say an opinion is false - it's an opinion. Fascinating. It sounds like the miscommunication happens because there is two different ways "I don't think there's any debate that X" is used. One is used to communicate a fact. The fact that X is so uncontroversial that nobody debates it. The other one seems to be using "I don't think there's any debate" as a kind of emphasis. It's a bit like double underscoring X and writing three exclamation points around it. It doesn't change that you are still just saying X but with more élan. And if different people use it differently then of course they won't understand each other. One would be confused that their strongly held opinion has been declared false without the conversation partner even addressing X. The other would be confused how something so easily disproven (by the presence of a debate) can be maintained. But of course I can be wrong.

alistairSH 1y ago

But, did the hire rate for those graduates change in a substantial way? Or were there always a % of ATC college programs who couldn't get the jobs (for one reason or another)? {I don't know the answer to this, but maybe it's been reported} There was absolutely corruption in the application/hiring process. That corruption was built on top of a (flawed, but well intentioned?) DEI program. But, as you note, did it materially impact the overall quality of the hiring pipeline? Maybe, but I don't know that we know for sure.